Bad Pilotage (1 Viewer)

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Don't fly into known icing conditions.

http://d.yimg.com/img.news.yahoo.com/util/anysize/400,http%3A%2F%2Fd.yimg.com%2Fa%2Fp%2Fap%2F20090213%2Fcapt.47ac24e5a3de43cf8e46f8a78db23205.plane_into_home_nydd113.jpg?v=2 [Broken]

Pilot error.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090213/ap_on_re_us/plane_into_home [Broken]

Families of the passengers should sue the pant's off the airline.

What a waste of a lovely airplane! :cry:

http://www.chc.ca/images/Dash8.jpg [Broken]

My friend flies one, i'm glad he wasn't the captain!
 
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G01

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I saw this on the news last night. A very sad story...
 
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Don't fly into known icing conditions.
Especially with a full load of passengers.
 
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The landing gear was lowered one minute before the end of the flight at an altitude of more than 2,000 feet, and 20 seconds later the wing flaps were set to slow the plane down, after which the aircraft went through "severe pitch and roll," Chealander said.

The crew raised the landing gear at the last moment, just before the recording ran out. No mayday call came from the pilot.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hpSZzqkNMwZvX2xrejSSUOyBGCYgD96BC2DG0 [Broken]

It looks like he stalled or close enough to it that he couldn't recover. I wonder if the plane had been on autopilot during the flight?
 
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You'd think a turbo-prop would have better maneuverability?
 
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You'd think a turbo-prop would have better maneuverability?
Not flying in ice I woudln't. I would expect it to do exactly what it did, fly straight into the ground. I'm amazed he flew with ice on the windsheild! He should have noticed sluggish controls long before it got that bad, unless it was a sudden - rappid build up of ice. In which case they had no chance of recovering.
 
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I guess the question is what SHOULD be done if ice is detected in-flight.
 
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I guess the question is what SHOULD be done if ice is detected in-flight.
Hit the de-ice button (if equipped), and fly away from the ice.
 
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Hit the de-ice button (if equipped), and fly away from the ice.
If it's that simple...I hope they get their collective butts sued off.
 
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It depends. It could have happend so fast they had no idea until it was too late. (But I don't think it builds up that fast. I think it takes a few minutes). Also, they could have hit the switch but the system failed to work.
 
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As you said...how COULD he fly with ice on the windshield and not know?
 
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Ever shovel your drive way when it's iced over? -not snow, but ice. Imagine what all that extra weight all over the wings does. It breaks your back just to shovel 10ft of side walk. A wing is 30+ feet long.
 

Borek

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From the yahoo page linked by Cyrus:

The flight data recorder indicated the plane's de-icing equipment was in the "on" position, but Chealander would not say whether the equipment was functioning.
 

turbo

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These planes have pneumatic boots on the leading edges that can be cycled to crack off ice that is forming. Since the planes are built in Canada and are used there, they ought to be robust against some degree of icing.
 

Ivan Seeking

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Did you all see that the widow of a 911 victim was on the plane? She met with Obama last week.
 
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Did you all see that the widow of a 911 victim was on the plane? She met with Obama last week.
I just read an account of her last conversation with her husband...she was on the phone with him, they said their good-byes, and then a loud explosion and a "whoosh" then nothing...I can't imagine her feelings.
 

Ivan Seeking

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It depends. It could have happend so fast they had no idea until it was too late. (But I don't think it builds up that fast. I think it takes a few minutes). Also, they could have hit the switch but the system failed to work.
The problem coming to light is that this craft does not have an automatic deicing system. There has been legislation in process for 15 years that would require automatic deicing - ever since another plane like this crashed due to ice - but it has never been passed.
 
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I just read an account of her last conversation with her husband...she was on the phone with him, they said their good-byes, and then a loud explosion and a "whoosh" then nothing...I can't imagine her feelings.
I'm pretty sure they were just sitting in their seats until all of a sudden WHAM you're dead. As a passenger, you wouldn't know what hit you. All you see is gray haze out the window, so you don't have a horizon reference to say "uh oh, were going straight into the ground". The ground would just suddenly appear out your window when you are probably 100 feet in alittude, which would probably then take another half a second before you crash into the earth. By the time you register something bad is going to happen you would be dead before you had time to internalize it. (This is why it's bad for the pilots. They only realize their attitude relative to the earth RIGHT BEFORE they fly into the mountain, at which point pulling up is futile). You are flying along and then all of a sudden the mountain appears out of the clouds infront of your windscreen. 3...2...1....you're dead. Pilot error.
 

FredGarvin

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I'm not ready to throw this on pilot error just yet. A european airline grounded their entire fleet of the exact same aircraft because of this very problem. Also, I heard a report of the weather balloon data from that airport and they had icing conditions up to and above 30,000 ft. The pilot requested three, IIRC, altitude adjustments from the tower trying to lower altitude on approach. The big question now is did they know in their pre-flight weather brief of the icing conditions? I would think yes, but in that area with lake effect weather so prominent it could have snuck up on them very quickly.

There is not enough information to start throwing blame yet.
 

cristo

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I'm pretty sure they were just sitting in their seats until all of a sudden WHAM you're dead.
I presume WhoWee was talking about the conversation between the woman and her husband when he was on one of the 9-11 planes.
 

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