# Banning ideas

1. Jul 19, 2007

### makc

It have recently come to my attention that, following its infamous tradition of copying american legal standarts, EU attemts to make posting make-a-bomb instructions on the web into a criminal offense. The father of idea was quoted with saying smth along the line, "posting ideas dangerous to society cannot be allowed".

In my humble opinion, this is just dumb beyond the reason. Should we also ban chemistry classes, so that noone would be able to read $$C_{3}H_{5}(OH)_{3} + 3HNO_{3} + 6H_{2}SO_{4} = C_{3}H_{5}(NO_{3}){3} + 3H_{2}O + 6H_{2}SO_{4}$$?

All that given people can legally buy a shotgun in these countries? How explosives are different from gun powder? Sure, they have licensing and stuff. But, I can make a bomb out of, say, a handful of nails, bottle of water, cork, immersion heater, duct tape, and electric power source, that would cause serious injuries, I think. Shall we require a license to buy nails and water from now on, too?

2. Jul 19, 2007

### Schrodinger's Dog

It doesn't matter it's impossible to ban anything from the internet really, weed it out somewhere and it'll appear somewhere else.

Fact is anyone can make a bomb out of readily available household materials, not a lot you can really do to stop someone who wants to do so, not internet wise anyway.

In fact you can find out how to make a nuclear bomb on line too, however getting hold of the fissile material may prove an obstacle to budding terrorist organisations or rogue states.

3. Jul 19, 2007

### lalbatros

Anyway it is too late now ... since Hiroshima.

4. Jul 19, 2007

### ank_gl

does banning something over internet mean anything??? do you really think people will stop that way??

5. Jul 19, 2007

### Mallignamius

If they do find a way to eliminate access to that information, I suppose the terrorists could go back to flying planes into buildings. (If not one way, than another.)

6. Jul 19, 2007

### makc

Years in prison?

7. Jul 19, 2007

### ice109

do you have any idea the logistics in enforcing this law? how much time and money it would take imprison one n00b for this let alone someone who does not want to be found?

besides i don't see what the point is. how many people can construct a nuke from poor instructions?

8. Jul 19, 2007

### NeoDevin

It's not just nukes, but other sorts of bombs including mines, pipe bombs, dirty bombs etc. While I agree in principle with restricting this sort of information, it isn't practically possible. There will always be other sources of informations, and if nothing else is available, you're just forcing terrorists to be a little more creative. They will come up with some sort of bomb, even if it's not one on the internet.

9. Jul 19, 2007

### Schrodinger's Dog

Also anyone can get an education in chemistry at almost any country in the world. And since Universities are prime recruiting ground for terrorists they wouldn't need to necessarily go on line. They could simply recruit a chemist who could then explain in detail how to make Nitro glycerin from basic ingredients. And then stabilise it as TNT. So even if you could stop the information from getting out, which you can't, you can't stop education from happening or people from getting info from other sources. If you ask me this idea is woefully inadequate and is a placebo.

Whilst it's still legal and freely available, I hope potential lunatics are taking notes :-

Mentor note: SD proved his point, but we would rather it not be described in detail here. Suffice it to say, a popular and readily available site was used to obtain the information he provided.

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2007
10. Jul 19, 2007

### ank_gl

Quoted text removed by Moonbear.
:surprised:surprisedshould SCHRODINGER be banned?? now anyone can make a dyanamite and kill us all:rofl::rofl:

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2007
11. Jul 19, 2007

### makc

whatever you might think, it actually happens to many people, for example http://www.out-law.com/page-3788 (search more - find more)

12. Jul 19, 2007

### ice109

granted that is injustice in its own right, that is not just simply posting information on how to make a bomb. if i put up a site called makeabombdotcom with no political affiliation of any sort i highly doubt i would get in trouble. hence the wiki article

13. Jul 19, 2007

### makc

as for wiki articles above, making explosives and making a bomb is not exactly the same; this one is far more amusing (though I doubt anyone can actually build anything with these "instructions" only).

14. Jul 19, 2007

### ice109

you're right but essentially my point is that they can make all the laws they want but it will never quell the spread of information

15. Jul 19, 2007

### Schrodinger's Dog

Actually the timing device is probably a lot easier to make than Nitroglycerine, which frankly unless you know what your doing could lead to serious injury or death. in fact I bet someone with a basic high school education in electronics could make a timer, I know I could and all I have is a GCSE in electronics which I gained at 16. Few capacitors, some resistors a battery and so on, yeah I bet I could knock something simple up in no time, I mean lets say I want a 30 minute delay, how hard do you think that is to do? Now programmable timers, but more tricky but if you have a plan do you really need them?

Also suicide bombers are not really worried about timer devices, preferring to set themselves off.

16. Jul 19, 2007

### ice109

why would you need to make anything, i could think of a lot of already made devices with internal timers that could as triggers

17. Jul 19, 2007

### ice109

lol this thread is getting way out of hand.

18. Jul 19, 2007

### Schrodinger's Dog

On their own? You'd still require the timer to set off a voltage surge. But believe me timers are fairly simple electronic devices anyway, particularly if you don't need it to be programmable. Simply insert the battery and retire to a safe country. I genuinely think that if you asked any person in the UK, with a reasonable level of intelligence to make a time bomb, give them a week and they could do it, some people with or without the internet.

19. Jul 19, 2007

### ice109

what i meant is that i wouldn't need to design any circuits, i could just use something like an alarm clock. hell you could go analog and a cigarette that burns down slowly and lights a fuse.

20. Jul 19, 2007

### baywax

Generally, in a society, the opinion of the majority rules. The majority of the socially responsible members of a society do not want to see their children's hands blown off, property damage or unnecessary injuries. Just ask a majority of Iraqi citizens (to name one society).

Mentor note: quoted text is from posts that were removed as follow-up to an inappropriate post. There was no clear-cut place to stop deleting replies to not disrupt the rest of the thread...apologies to those who have done nothing wrong but whose posts needed to be removed to clean up.

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2007