News Baptist minister calls for Obama's death

Ivan Seeking

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... Now some people may claim that this is just hate speech and not actually a call to violence, but Pastor Steven Anderson would disagree. According to him, the purpose of his sermon was not to just “tickle your ears but to give you a swift kick in the pants.” He goes on to say that “God is a god of wrath and vengeance” and that he, Steven Anderson, is going to “pray for Barack Obama to die and go to Hell.”...
http://www.examiner.com/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2009m8d27-Christian-Pastor-calls-for-the-Presidents-death

More from the nutty religious right. While I have no problem with denouncing policies that one believes to be wrong, this is way over the line. Not to mention that it is antithetical to Christianity to pray for someone to go to hell.

Remember the guy with the AK47 in Arizona? Apparently he attended the sermon mentioned above.
 
http://www.examiner.com/x-8928-Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner~y2009m8d27-Christian-Pastor-calls-for-the-Presidents-death

More from the nutty religious right. While I have no problem with denouncing policies that one believes to be wrong, this is way over the line. Not to mention that it is antithetical to Christianity to pray for someone to go to hell.

Remember the guy with the AK47 in Arizona? Apparently he attended the sermon mentioned above.
Not every person who attends a preacher's church will follow what what they preach; My mom hates my pastor and she attends the church he preaches at everyday;Many did not agree that the beliefs of obama's pastor tied exactly into the beliefs of that obama held, so you should automatically labeled the guy who carried in AK47 a nutjob; There is an alex jones interview with the AK47 guy floating around on youtube and he sounded like a rational person to me; He even said he intentionally did not put the hand on his AK47 because he did not want to intimidate anyone around him; The guy calling for obama's death is clearly a nutjob and the authorities should have him arrested for calling for a person's death;
 
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The source is the Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner?
 

Ivan Seeking

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The source is the Philadelphia-Atheism-Examiner?
I thought it was just the Examiner...

It was on CNN with recorded excerpts from his sermon. I just grabbed the first link that appeared in a news search. At a glance it appeared to be accurate.
 

Ivan Seeking

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Very offensive language
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-qr6gxIHhQ

Part II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-OT8_cwWC8

Consider the irony of needing a language warning for a Baptist minister, in a science forum!
 
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I thought it was just the Examiner...

It was on CNN with recorded excerpts from his sermon. I just grabbed the first link that appeared in a news search. At a glance it appeared to be accurate.
What does that tell us about CNN?
 

Ivan Seeking

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What does that tell us about CNN?
It tells me that they are helping to expose nuts like this guy. This will put pressure on those around him to fire him. It sounds like he needs professional help and certainly shouldn't be running a church. The fact that the idiot with the AK47 attended this sermon, assuming that to be true, makes it even more interesting and significant. Perhaps this is really just a terrorist group disguised as a church. Who knows? But I'm sure he has already had a talk with the Secret Service.
 
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It's a crime to threaten the president of the United States. Wonder if he will face charges or if the court will let him slip because he is a Christian.
 
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drankin

It's a crime to threaten the president of the United States. Wonder if he will face charges or if the court will let him slip because he is a Christian.
The guy is a freak. But he didn't threaten the President. Praying for someone to die (and go to hell) isn't a threat. It's just bad preaching.
 

ideasrule

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As much as I'd like to disagree with the minister, I'd have to say that he's right: the Bible does call for violence and torture against homosexuals and other "lewd" people. Not only that, it clearly demonstrates God's willingness to use mass murder against these people, something which has long become appalling to civilized societies.

Yet another example of how religion obstructs social and moral progress.
 
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drankin

As much as I'd like to disagree with the minister, I'd have to say that he's right: the Bible does call for violence and torture against homosexuals and other "lewd" people. Not only that, it clearly demonstrates God's willingness to use mass murder against these people, something which has long become appalling to civilized societies.

Yet another example of how religion obstructs social and moral progress.
Find a single passage in the New Testament of the bible that supports your argument (that's the part that created Christianity). Send it to me via PM because this is not the forum to bash/endorse religion. Otherwise you are just posting unsupported nonsense.

And were not even talking about homosexuals or "lewd" people or mass murders. We're talking about a pastor who is off his rocker praying for the death of the President.
 
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Praying for someone to die (and go to hell) isn't a threat. It's just bad preaching.
Playing with the borders of democracy, just like trying to find out where torture begins.
 

Ivan Seeking

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As much as I'd like to disagree with the minister, I'd have to say that he's right: the Bible does call for violence and torture against homosexuals and other "lewd" people. Not only that, it clearly demonstrates God's willingness to use mass murder against these people, something which has long become appalling to civilized societies.

Yet another example of how religion obstructs social and moral progress.
Suffice it to say that is all old Testament. Christianity is based on the principles of turn the other cheek when struck, love your neighbor, love your enemy as yourself, let him without sin cast the first stone.

This is not a religious argument. It is a historical fact. That many Christians don't act like Christians doesn't change the facts. It does show that this guy is not only a nut, but a hypocrite.

Whoops, I see Drankin got you straightened out on that fact.
 
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drankin

Playing with the borders of democracy, just like trying to find out where torture begins.
What are you talking about? Could you provide some definition?
 

Ivan Seeking

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Hate speech is everywhere.

http://www.black-and-right.com/2009/08/19/hate-speech-liberals-celebrate/

First he says "the new slavery is economic slavery". Then, he says "white people want to kill you...it is part of their plan."

We need to send this link to CNN to investigate as well.
Yes, he is a nut as well, but he didn't threaten the President - he isn't "trying to light a fire under people's pants" to "abort" the President. And he isn't running a Baptist Church. He is some backstreet author who probably doesn't have an audience beyond gang members that we already know to be criminals. He is also probably bitter over Katrina [it was a hearing of some sort for Katrina victims], as he should be. That entire ordeal was a fiasco, and blacks bore the brunt of it.

Did you note that one black guy - the moderator - who said something like, no one is THAT black?
 
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drankin

Hate speech is everywhere.

http://www.black-and-right.com/2009/08/19/hate-speech-liberals-celebrate/

First he says "the new slavery is economic slavery". Then, he says "white people want to kill you...it is part of their plan."

We need to send this link to CNN to investigate as well.
Wow. Just watched that clip. Mental illness in the pulpit.

My favorite band since the 90s is a three man band. Lead singer/bassist is black and the drummer and guitarist are white. I KNEW they've have been trying to kill him for years... I knew it.
 

Ivan Seeking

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drankin

Yes, he is a nut as well, but he didn't threaten the President. And he isn't running a Baptist Church. He is some backstreet author who probably doesn't have an audience beyond gang members that we already know to be criminals. He is also probably bitter over Katrina, as he should be. That entire ordeal was a fiasco, and blacks bore the brunt of it.
Ivan, this Baptist wacko didn't actually threaten the Prez! His words are definately hateful (he passionately hates Obama), but he didn't actually cross that line of threatening the POTUS.

Listening to that sermon, he's totally wacked.
 

Ivan Seeking

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Ivan, this Baptist wacko didn't actually threaten the Prez! His words are definately hateful (he passionately hates Obama), but he didn't actually cross that line of threatening the POTUS.

Listening to that sermon, he's totally wacked.
He said that he is trying to light a fire to motivate people. Given the context of saying that the President should be "aborted" and that he should die and go to hell, that is easily seen as a call to kill the President.

I did listen to the entire twenty minutes.
 
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drankin

He said that he is trying to light a fire to motivate people. Given the context of saying that the President should be "aborted" and that he should die and go to hell, that is easily seen as a call to kill the President.

I did listen to the entire twenty minutes.
I listened to it, not easy to get through. Do you think he is actually inciting violence to that end? I didn't get that. I got that he was just trying to justify his hate and demonization. He's definately fixated, as if everything was fine until Obama was elected. There is no formal threat. That line wasn't crossed.
 

MATLABdude

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I listened to it, not easy to get through. Do you think he is actually inciting violence to that end? I didn't get that. I got that he was just trying to justify his hate and demonization. He's definately fixated, as if everything was fine until Obama was elected. There is no formal threat. That line wasn't crossed.
We Canadians classify hate speech as inciting hatred against, or advocating genocide of, any 'identifiable group':
http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/resources/legislation/canadian_law/federal/criminal_code/criminal_code_hate.cfm [Broken]

Even here, it's not always cut and dried (e.g. David Ahenakew), but where's the line drawn down in the U.S.? He'd probably get arrested for ordering his congregants to arm themselves and make it their mission to assassinate the president, and probably for offering a bounty on his head "I'm not telling you to kill the President, but if you do, we'll wire you / your cause a million dollars!", but that line between shooting your mouth off, and out and out making threats / intending violence must get awfully blurry sometimes.

EDIT: Didn't mean to point out hatred in particular in this case (although I haven't seen the video, it seems to be more along the lines of 'he's not against the gays', rather than your garden variety white supremacist or Nazi-wannabe stuff), but I thought it would serve as another contrast between our countries on the issue of free speech vs. inciting. Maybe the more pertinent statute to cite would've been statutes on utterance of death threats and/or threats of bodily harm, but it also prevents prosecution of 'idle threats':
http://www.criminal-lawyer.on.ca/utter-threats.html [Broken]
 
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skippy1729

I am proud to live in a country where Steven Anderson, Jeremiah Wright, Louis Farrakhan, the Klan, the skinheads, the SDS, and the communists can all be free to speak their poison.

If he had said he was going to kill the President or encouraged someone else to do so then he should go to prison. We don't need a law against praying for bad things.

Skippy
 
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Can't he just pray that Obama will have a change of heart with a couple issues?
 

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