KK Thermal Physics Ch4: A Peculiar Model of Photons

In summary, the conversation explores the standard derivation of the SB law of radiation and discusses the peculiarities of modeling the photon as a 1D SHO while the distribution of modes follows the condition for a standing EM wave in a 3D box. The reason for not assuming a 3D SHO model for the photon is due to the fact that each individual field mode can be described as an independent 1-D SHO. This leads to the concept of a quantum field, which is an infinite set of harmonic oscillators associated with classical field modes. The conversation also touches on the topic of renormalization in quantum field theory, where the ground state energy is subtracted to account for the infinite number of modes. Although mathematically
  • #1
Euclid
214
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I am looking in KK Thermal Physics ch4 at what I assume to be the standard derivation of the SB law of radiation and I notice something peculiar.
On the one hand, they model the photon as a 1D SHO with energy given by
[tex] \epsilon = n \hbar \omega [/tex]
On the ohter hand, the distribution of the modes (omega) is given by the condition for a standing EM wave in a 3D box ([tex] \omega =\pi c \sqrt{ n^2 + m^2 + l^2} /L[/tex]). My question is, why does one not assume a 3D SHO model for the photon with
[tex] \epsilon = (n+m+l) \hbar \omega [/tex]?
It seems odd to model the photon as a SHO, but only partially. What's the full story?
 
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  • #2
Euclid said:
I am looking in KK Thermal Physics ch4 at what I assume to be the standard derivation of the SB law of radiation and I notice something peculiar.
On the one hand, they model the photon as a 1D SHO with energy given by
[tex] \epsilon = n \hbar \omega [/tex]
On the ohter hand, the distribution of the modes (omega) is given by the condition for a standing EM wave in a 3D box ([tex] \omega =\pi c \sqrt{ n^2 + m^2 + l^2} /L[/tex]). My question is, why does one not assume a 3D SHO model for the photon with
[tex] \epsilon = (n+m+l) \hbar \omega [/tex]?
It seems odd to model the photon as a SHO, but only partially. What's the full story?

You are confusing two different "quantisations" here. EACH individual FIELD MODE is an independent 1-D SHO. So the whole system is not a 3-D SHO, but a multi billion-fold dimensional SHO (infinite, in fact). In free space, all plane waves are field modes. But in a box, with boundary conditions, the field modes are quantized (in classical EM). Each of these modes can be described classically by a "harmonic oscillator" with a certain frequency (fixed by the mode) and a certain amplitude/phase (which is free in classical physics). It is THIS harmonic oscillator which will be quantized. So for EACH field mode, we have an oscillator, which, after quantization will take on the famous
E = n(mode) omega(mode) x hbar.

We say that n(mode) is the NUMBER OF PHOTONS in this mode.

So a photon (of a certain type = associated with a certain classical mode of oscillation of the EM field) is nothing else but a quantization step of the associated SHO.

So one quantization is classical, and gives you the modes (and hence the omega(mode)) ,and the other quantization is quantum-mechanical, and gives you the ladder of the oscillator associated with the mode. You have a quantum-mechanical oscillator PER MODE.

Edit:
such an infinite set of harmonic oscillators, associated to classical field modes, is called a QUANTUM FIELD.
 
  • #3
Very cool. Thanks for the reply.

Since there are an infinite number of modes, won't the ground state of that system be infinite? It's interesting that KK ignores the zero level energy...
 
  • #4
Euclid said:
Very cool. Thanks for the reply.

Since there are an infinite number of modes, won't the ground state of that system be infinite? It's interesting that KK ignores the zero level energy...

YES.

So what people do is: they subtract this ground level. It's a first taste of renormalization... in quantum field theory, we don't stop subtracting infinities from infinities...
 
  • #5
This is very interesting. It seems totally ad hoc. But the renormalization process works?
 
  • #6
Euclid said:
This is very interesting. It seems totally ad hoc. But the renormalization process works?

Yes... it is not *totally* ad hoc, but it is not very clean either. Quantum field theory is mathematically not sound, but as you say, it works. That is, the fundamental mathematical constructions can be shown not to exist (!), but the derived calculational procedures work quite amazingly well. That's why people then said that the actual theory was the "set of calculational procedures" and that the (non-existing) objects one was trying to calculate was just an inspiration. And then it turns out that even these calculational procedures are mathematically ill-defined, except for the first approximations.

However, these first approximations give amazingly accurate numerical results.
 

1. What is the peculiar model of photons proposed in Chapter 4 of KK Thermal Physics?

The peculiar model of photons proposed in Chapter 4 of KK Thermal Physics is the Planck-Einstein model, also known as the quantum theory of light. This model suggests that photons have both wave-like and particle-like properties, and their energy is directly proportional to their frequency.

2. How does the peculiar model of photons differ from classical electromagnetic theory?

The peculiar model of photons differs from classical electromagnetic theory in that it takes into account the discrete nature of energy and the quantization of light. In classical theory, light is considered a continuous wave, while in the Planck-Einstein model, it is described as a collection of discrete particles.

3. Can the peculiar model of photons explain the photoelectric effect?

Yes, the peculiar model of photons provides a more accurate explanation of the photoelectric effect compared to classical theory. The model suggests that the energy of a photon is transferred to an electron when it is absorbed, causing the electron to be ejected from the material.

4. How does the peculiar model of photons explain blackbody radiation?

The peculiar model of photons explains blackbody radiation by proposing that the energy of a photon is related to its frequency and is emitted or absorbed in discrete amounts, also known as quanta. This explains the observed spectrum of radiation emitted by a blackbody at different temperatures.

5. Are there any limitations to the peculiar model of photons?

Yes, the peculiar model of photons has limitations in its ability to fully explain the behavior of light. It does not fully account for the wave-like behavior of light, such as interference and diffraction, and it cannot fully explain the photoelectric effect for all materials. This led to the development of more comprehensive theories such as quantum mechanics.

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