Be yourself/ know yourself: split from WTF GIRLS

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In summary: Most people are not entirely clear on what makes them happy, what makes them sad, or why they do the things they do. They can be aware of their likes and dislikes, but they don't really know what makes themtick.To really know oneself, one would have to delve into one's innermost thoughts and feelings. This is something few people do, and even fewer are completely successful at.The idea of "finding yourself" is a good one, but it's not as easy as it sounds. It takes time and effort to really understand oneself.In summary, Cyrus believes that most people don't know themselves very well, and that it is a difficult task to
  • #1
verty
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I don't think "be yourself" is great advice. Most people aren't quite sure what 'yourself' is.
 
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  • #2
verty said:
I don't think "be yourself" is great advice. Most people aren't quite sure what 'yourself' is.

If you aren't sure what "yourself" is, then you have bigger issues than asking out girls/women. I suggest spending time in a psychologist's office figuring out why you don't know who you are before you even bother trying to ask anyone out if you don't already know the answer to that question.
 
  • #3
If you aren't sure what "yourself" is, then you have bigger issues than asking out girls/women. I suggest spending time in a psychologist's office figuring out why you don't know who you are before you even bother trying to ask anyone out if you don't already know the answer to that question.

That was a rather harsh response. I mean that guys who want to ask a girl out often do what they come to regret later. I don't think they have a rigid conception of exactly what they want, and I don't think it is something so rare than one should visit a psychologist as though one were defective. Of course this is just my opinion.
 
  • #4
I don't know too many people who know themselves. No one has integrity or values nowadays. No takes the time to reflect on and examine their lives. The idea of "finding yourself" is taking for granted and people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves.
 
  • #5
JasonRox said:
people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves.

:confused: :rofl:

Does that sound as dumb to you as it does to me?
 
  • #6
Cyrus, I think your response can be taken in two ways. Do you mean it would be funny to think that one should not need to learn about oneself, or do you think one should not need to learn about oneself?
 
  • #7
Neither, I am simply saying that sounds like a bunch of crap.

"people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves."

What a bunch of nonsense.
 
  • #8
What matters is the difference between acting and reacting.
 
  • #9
cyrusabdollahi said:
Neither, I am simply saying that sounds like a bunch of crap.

"people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves."

What a bunch of nonsense.

I completely disagree.

You think it's nonsense because you seem to fall under that category.
 
  • #10
cyrusabdollahi said:
Neither, I am simply saying that sounds like a bunch of crap.

"people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves."

What a bunch of nonsense.

I can't figger it out either. Must be one of them there tautologies. :biggrin:
 
  • #11
cyrusabdollahi said:
"people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves."
Actually it is quite true. People who lack introspection really don't 'know' themselves, and some or much behavior can be automatic or conditioned. Some people lack impulse control, and they really don't know or realize that component of their behavior. I wouldn't have believed if my wife (who has degrees in psychology) hadn't shown me examples first hand.
 
  • #12
What does it mean to know yourself? I am curiously interested in what you guys mean. I know myself, I know my core values, I know how I was raised and what separates my values from others. I don't wake up one day and turn on the TV and think "Hmmmm, now how would I react to that?" I already know... Ironically, because I am myself! :rofl:
 
  • #13
The analysis of the sentence 'People think they know themselves simply because they are themselves.' would eject an unnecessary quasi-philosophical discussion. :rolleyes:
 
  • #14
Yea, I am not trying to refute it, but understand what he meant by it. :-). Robert Mak, you are both going to graduate before you get to ask her out if you keep going on like this, you know that right? lol
 
  • #15
I'll try to give an example. When I was young, I was told on numerous occasions that I was a practical person, and I came to believe that because I trusted those who told me that. Anyhow, it turns out that I am not practical but pragmatic. That is something I had to learn about myself; it could not be taught. Even if I had been told that I was pragmatic, I could only be said to know it if I believed it and was justified in believing it; taking the word of others liberally would not have justified that belief.

So knowing yourself is basically having a solid foundation for your personality. People without solid foundations are flaky, they change with the seasons and don't have firm convictions, etc. They don't quite know what they want.

This foundation is something lasting like a platonic essence, what one might call a life purpose or orientation. Who you are orients your life; your life shouldn't orient who you are. Okay, perhaps that sounds vague. It's like a ship that is sailing somewhere, it should pretty much go in a straight line or at least a polyline rather than following the currents.
 
  • #16
verty said:
So knowing yourself is basically having a solid foundation for your personality. People without solid foundations are flaky, they change with the seasons and don't have firm convictions, etc. They don't quite know what they want.

Well, I'll agree with you on the flaky part. Seriously, if you believe what other people tell you about yourself, regardless if it's true or not, that's just plain weird. The whole "I need to go find myself" stuff is Oprah-style psychobabble in my opinion. If someone is so delusional that they can't even recognize their own personality traits, they do need a psychologist...or psychiatrist. Don't you know what you like, or don't like, or if you're a morning person, or night-owl, or prefer to be left alone or like to hang out in crowds, or are usually a happy person, or more often sullen and sulky? How the heck do you NOT know this about yourself? And, why would you take someone elses opinion about your personality as more important than your own?
 
  • #17
dontdisturbmycircles said:
What does it mean to know yourself? I am curiously interested in what you guys mean. I know myself, I know my core values, I know how I was raised and what separates my values from others. I don't wake up one day and turn on the TV and think "Hmmmm, now how would I react to that?" I already know... Ironically, because I am myself!

But do you know before you react how you will feel tomorrow about your reaction today? That'd be the short & sweet acid test of knowing yourself in my book. It doesn't mean you can't have morning after regrets, just that you don't have unanticipated morning after regrets.

There's a good deal more to it than that, but the rest goes hand in hand with it. For example, you shouldn't hold opinions that lead to mutually exclusive conclusions, or at least be aware of the ones that do. If you do have such opinions that are ultimately mutually exclusive, you're eventually going to make a decision based on one opinion and only later find out it violates the other opinion.
 
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  • #18
Seriously, if you believe what other people tell you about yourself, regardless if it's true or not, that's just plain weird.

I don't think we emerge knowing that. It's something to be learned. I also think it's rather subtle. I have often heard a mother say something like "my son/daughter knows what he/she wants to grow up to become", when very often I can read that as "they know what I want them to become". How many children disobey their parents when they become teenagers? If that's not a voyage of self-discovery, I don't know what is.
 
  • #19
twisting_edge said:
But do you know before you react how you will feel tomorrow about your reaction today? That'd be the short & sweet acid test of knowing yourself in my book. It doesn't mean you can't have morning after regrets, just that you don't have unanticipated morning after regrets.

There's a good deal more to it than that, but the rest goes hand in hand with it. For example, you shouldn't hold opinions that lead to mutually exclusive conclusions, or at least be aware of the ones that are. If you do have such opinions that are ultimately mutually exclusive, you're eventually going to make a decision based on one opinion and only later find out it violates the other opinion.

I see your point, but I never said that your personality can't change. Surely I have changed since I was a teenager. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I would change from day to day, maybe every 3-4 years my attitude towards certain aspects of life changes.

My point was, at anyone moment you should have a good feeling as to how you feel towards certain things, your outlook on life, and your personality. By being yourself for however many years you have lived, you know how you feel around lots of other people, as Moonbear pointed out as a good example.

I think that Astronuc also made a good point. By introspection we can perhaps change how we feel about certain things, but I don't think I would call it finally finding out my 'true' opinion or something. Would you?
 
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  • #20
verty said:
I don't think we emerge knowing that. It's something to be learned. I also think it's rather subtle. I have often heard a mother say something like "my son/daughter knows what he/she wants to grow up to become", when very often I can read that as "they know what I want them to become". How many children disobey their parents when they become teenagers? If that's not a voyage of self-discovery, I don't know what is.

I don't have a clue what you're trying to get at here. What does your parents telling other people what they think you want to do when you grow up, or the fact that everyone naturally changes their mind as they learn about other options that fit their personality and desires better, have to do with knowing who you are yourself? And how is rebelling against your parents an indicator that you don't know what you want? If anything, it's an indicator that you do know, and are finally old enough to act upon your own desires, not be forced to do your parents' bidding. The conflict is usually because your parents' views on your personality and what you should or shouldn't be doing are not consistent with your own views. If you didn't know who you are and just went along with what everyone else told you, there wouldn't be any conflict.
 
  • #21
verty said:
Who you are orients your life; your life shouldn't orient who you are.

I like this one. But it's not as simple as it sounds.

verty said:
It's like a ship that is sailing somewhere, it should pretty much go in a straight line or at least a polyline rather than following the currents.

Ugh...these ships and currents always make me melancholic. :rolleyes:

Anyways, if your ship went in a straight line, you'd always know where you'd end up. And that ain't always the best thing, is it? :wink:
 
  • #22
The conflict is usually because your parents' views on your personality and what you should or shouldn't be doing are not consistent with your own views. If you didn't know who you are and just went along with what everyone else told you, there wouldn't be any conflict.

I don't mean that one either knows or doesn't know, as though that knowledge was atomic. I mean that young people who rebel know what they don't want but not really what they do. I consider their rebellion to be a negative reaction rather than a positive one, at least initially until they become more experienced and find purpose or whatever. If teenagers knew what they wanted, wouldn't we all still be teenagers?

Perhaps I shouldn't see purpose as something fixed but rather that people's opinions change and so does their behaviour, and to look at a life as a whole gives a misleading picture. I am willing to accept that we are speaking different languages. However, couldn't I then say that everyone always does what they want at the time, even someone being coerced? They want the pain to stop, etc.

Perhaps there is a middle ground here. When young people rebel, they want to rebel, and perhaps their opinion changes over time and they stop rebelling, but I frame that as that they have learned what they really want through that period of discovery. The language we choose is justified by the context in which we want to use it, but for now I think this is the best way to see it.
 
  • #23
dontdisturbmycircles said:
I think that Astronuc also made a good point. By introspection we can perhaps change how we feel about certain things, but I don't think I would call it finally finding out my 'true' opinion or something. Would you?
I most certainly would. I can't think of a good example of this because I usually see these things coming long before the problem arises. I consider all my other opinions on various related matters before forming new opinions. Many people do not.

But I'll happily steal someone else's example. "Regarding biodiesel, when I approach the same sorts of people who all but hung me from a tree [threatened my life] for being an environmentalist, and ask if they would rather give their money to oil sheiks or Oregon farmers, guess what the answer is every time?" Those people clearly had not thought their opinions about environmentalists through very well, had they? Had he phrased the question another way, he would have gotten a very different answer. What did they think their opinion was of biodiesel? What was their true opinion of biodiesel? They had all the facts, they just hadn't thought it through.

There's examples like that everywhere. People react without thinking all the time (in fact, most of the time). People undeniably exhibit contradictory behavior regularly. But the more you rectify your opinions against each other, the less likely you are to to exhibit contradictory behavior, even when you act without thinking. When you do notice yourself engaging in contradictory behavior (most people don't even notice it when they do), you can figure out the reason pretty quickly if you "know yourself", know why you do things. Then you have the option of changing that behavior or just accepting it.

But if you aren't "self aware" (a more current version of "knowing yourself"), you don't even have that option.
 
  • #24
Anyways, if your ship went in a straight line, you'd always know where you'd end up. And that ain't always the best thing, is it?

Well it depends on what 'straight line' means. Perhaps I should have phrased it better, that is why I add the polyline bit on the end. By straight line I initially meant a line like evolution follows a line from less complex to more complex. Even though people's behaviour changes, they are making discoveries through those actions. Think of it as a time line but actually a discovery line or even a knowledge line.
 
  • #25
Moonbear said:
Well, I'll agree with you on the flaky part. Seriously, if you believe what other people tell you about yourself, regardless if it's true or not, that's just plain weird. The whole "I need to go find myself" stuff is Oprah-style psychobabble in my opinion. If someone is so delusional that they can't even recognize their own personality traits, they do need a psychologist...or psychiatrist. Don't you know what you like, or don't like, or if you're a morning person, or night-owl, or prefer to be left alone or like to hang out in crowds, or are usually a happy person, or more often sullen and sulky? How the heck do you NOT know this about yourself? And, why would you take someone elses opinion about your personality as more important than your own?


Careful moonbear, according to jason we might both not know ourselves based on our replies!

Jason: Do you always make it a habbit to speak for other when you talk? You make ignorant generalizations left and right about people.
 
  • #26
Moonbear said:
Well, I'll agree with you on the flaky part. Seriously, if you believe what other people tell you about yourself, regardless if it's true or not, that's just plain weird. The whole "I need to go find myself" stuff is Oprah-style psychobabble in my opinion. If someone is so delusional that they can't even recognize their own personality traits, they do need a psychologist...or psychiatrist. Don't you know what you like, or don't like, or if you're a morning person, or night-owl, or prefer to be left alone or like to hang out in crowds, or are usually a happy person, or more often sullen and sulky? How the heck do you NOT know this about yourself? And, why would you take someone elses opinion about your personality as more important than your own?

It's more than that Moonbear. Knowing yourself is much more than just knowing you like to be alone, and like certain things. It goes much deeper than that.

Oprah style? Socrates himself said "Know thyself."

Probably the best advice ever given. And what I said still stands, and it is what Socrates implied, as well as what many Philosophers believe, along with Psychologists.

Anyways, this isn't the place to discuss this.
 
  • #27
JasonRox said:
It's more than that Moonbear. Knowing yourself is much more than just knowing you like to be alone, and like certain things. It goes much deeper than that.

:rolleyes: I give some examples and you want to argue because I haven't named every little facet of personality? C'mon. How does someone NOT know themselves? Give an example of something someone wouldn't know about themself, because for the life of me, this makes no sense at all that someone wouldn't know themself.

The only examples anyone is giving of anything are things like their opinions change as they get older. That's not that you didn't know yourself before, it's that as you learn new things about the world around you, any honest person will adjust their views on things with greater knowledge about those things. That's not changing knowledge about yourself, that's changing knowledge about things in the world around you.

Socrates himself said "Know thyself."
But that wasn't to imply people didn't already know themselves. It was intended that to understand the world around you, look to yourself first.
History of Philosophy said:
But, whereas the Sophists had forthwith given up the search after truth, Socrates insisted that by reflecting on our own mental constitution we may learn to determine the conditions of knowledge, to form concepts as they ought to be formed, and by this means place the principles of conduct as well as the principles of knowledge on a solid scientific foundation. Know thyself (gnôthi seauton): this is the sum of all philosophy. From the consideration of the objective world (nature) we must turn to the study of the subjective (self).
http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/hop07.htm

Oh, and by the way, the phrase is originally attributed to the Oracle at Delphi, not Socrates.
 
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  • #28
Moonbear said:
The only examples anyone is giving of anything are things like their opinions change as they get older. That's not that you didn't know yourself before, it's that as you learn new things about the world around you, any honest person will adjust their views on things with greater knowledge about those things. That's not changing knowledge about yourself, that's changing knowledge about things in the world around you.
In a lot of cases, there's no new information involved. People have just bought into one side or another of an argument. But there's a broader point than that. Opinions are just the most tangible aspects (and not very tangible at that, I might point out).

I think my earlier acid test still works, and a lot of people fail it. It usually shows up as hypocrisy when seen from the outside. The wingnuts who lecture me on global warming but drive SUVs are a good example. Jealous lovers almost always have the worst track record on infidelity. The list goes on. Almost every one of them will deny being a hypocrit, too.

But even that isn't the end of it. There's the simple matter of making up your mind. If you are self aware, it's generally easy to make up your mind because there's fewer confliciting opinions you're going to have to reconcile later. "If I do this, I'm going to regret it later because of that." If there's less of "that" floating around out there, it's easier to figure out the "right" thing for you to do.

Whether or not you actually do the "right" thing is another matter altogether. But if you can't even figure out in advance what the "right" thing is, the odds of you doing something you'll regret later skyrockets.
 
  • #29
Surely you don't need to formulate an oppinion on each and every topic to "know thyself" or whatever, you simply need to know how you may feel towards a certain topic. I need not think about whether or not politics peaks my interest. I don't have to sit down and really reflect on the history of the ottoman empire to already know that I would not enjoy it. My values tell me that politics are not very important and that is me. Me is not the fact that I dislike George Bush (I don't, just an example), me is the fact that I tend not to be interested.

What you are basically saying is that you apply your values to new situations a lot of the time.For examply you think about whether the concern for global warming coincides with your values, but you are not readjusting your values. You already know them, or else you would have no way of making an oppinion.

If I were to ask you a question on let's say, whether or not you might like badmington, what would you say? Most people would immediately be able to say yes or no just based on knowing themselves. I can't imagine someone not knowing their core values. Doesn't make much sense to me.

I would argue that if you were asked about biodiesel and said that it was a waste of time and money, then that is "you"... You don't value such things, if tommorow you decide to run your alarm clock on biodiesel, it just means that "you" have changed.

By the way, sorry that this post is not formulated very well. I don't have much time, it kinda jumps from topic to topic.
 
  • #30
I made a post in the philosophy forum so that we can sort of separate the two different topics here - Knowing yourself, and dating. Could we move the knowing yourself topic to this thread please?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1226793#post1226793
 
  • #31
twisting_edge said:
I think my earlier acid test still works, and a lot of people fail it. It usually shows up as hypocrisy when seen from the outside. The wingnuts who lecture me on global warming but drive SUVs are a good example. Jealous lovers almost always have the worst track record on infidelity. The list goes on. Almost every one of them will deny being a hypocrit, too.
But does that really mean they don't know themselves? Or does it just mean they are being dishonest with other people? I mean, I know people who have put on the pretense of objecting to extramarital affairs while having one of their own. Sometimes such things are done to avoid the judgement of others (they don't actually condemn other people in extramarital affairs, but don't admit to it around people who would), and sometimes it's just that they're selfish people (they are judgemental of others, but when it comes to themselves, the rules change if it isn't convenient to follow them...do as I say, not as I do types).

But even that isn't the end of it. There's the simple matter of making up your mind. If you are self aware, it's generally easy to make up your mind because there's fewer confliciting opinions you're going to have to reconcile later. "If I do this, I'm going to regret it later because of that." If there's less of "that" floating around out there, it's easier to figure out the "right" thing for you to do.

Whether or not you actually do the "right" thing is another matter altogether. But if you can't even figure out in advance what the "right" thing is, the odds of you doing something you'll regret later skyrockets.

I still just don't see how this distinguishes between knowing yourself or not. Some people are notoriously impulsive and regret things they do later because they didn't stop to think about it before they did it, but that IS who they are. Knowing they have made mistakes like that in the past doesn't stop them from continuing to make impulsive choices, and doesn't make it any easier for them to train themselves to stop and think before acting. I don't really know what impulsive people are thinking, but it just seems that the problem isn't that they wouldn't know they would regret something if they thought about it before doing it, it's that they just act too quickly and don't think about something and all the consequences down the line.

Now, someone claiming they're an environmentalist to the extent of lecturing others about it and then driving an SUV, unless it's to get off-road to lug equipment to some remote location to rescue endangered species, fits my definition of "flakey." Again, is that lack of self-awareness, or just selfishness? They expect everyone else to fix the world for them, and idealistically it's a good idea, but they don't want to change their own lifestyle for it.
 
  • #32
Moonbear said:
I still just don't see how this distinguishes between knowing yourself or not. Some people are notoriously impulsive and regret things they do later because they didn't stop to think about it before they did it, but that IS who they are. Knowing they have made mistakes like that in the past doesn't stop them from continuing to make impulsive choices, and doesn't make it any easier for them to train themselves to stop and think before acting. I don't really know what impulsive people are thinking, but it just seems that the problem isn't that they wouldn't know they would regret something if they thought about it before doing it, it's that they just act too quickly and don't think about something and all the consequences down the line.

Impulsive people generally act according to how they feel, which is their emotions, which isn't always consistent with you they are. That's why it matters when you do something regretful or not. The idea is to not act in according to emotions and to act according to rationality. Sure it's still YOU in the physical world.
 
  • #33
JasonRox said:
Impulsive people generally act according to how they feel, which is their emotions, which isn't always consistent with you they are. That's why it matters when you do something regretful or not. The idea is to not act in according to emotions and to act according to rationality. Sure it's still YOU in the physical world.

But it's not "them" to be rational. That's what you're expecting of them. They are impulsive people who react to things based on emotions first. What makes you think they don't know who they are or that they're going to regret something later even as they do it and inevitably regret it anyway? Are there really all that many people who are constantly regretting things they've done? Most people learn from experience...they act impulsively and realize that was a bad approach, because they didn't like the outcome, so decide not to do that again. Those who have no impulse control whatsoever DO need psychological help, because that's not a normal behavior. That's not about "finding" themselves, that's about a problem controlling their own behavior.
 
  • #34
dontdisturbmycircles said:
I made a post in the philosophy forum so that we can sort of separate the two different topics here - Knowing yourself, and dating. Could we move the knowing yourself topic to this thread please?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1226793#post1226793

You're right that it should be split out.

Edit: The thread operation was a success! If anyone wishes to participate in a higher level of debate on the topic of Socrates' "Know Thyself", use the philosophy forum thread. We'll leave Robert Mak's thread for dating advice, and this one for trying to figure out what on Earth people mean when they say someone doesn't know themself in common, everyday usage.
 
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  • #35
I agree with moonbear, this is all a bunch of psychobabble crap.

Edit: Wooooo, spelled it physcobabble the first time...tisk tisk.
 
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<h2>1. What does it mean to "be yourself"?</h2><p>"Be yourself" means being true to who you are, your values, beliefs, and personality. It involves being authentic and not trying to conform to societal expectations or pressures.</p><h2>2. How can I know myself better?</h2><p>Knowing yourself involves self-reflection and introspection. Take time to think about your likes, dislikes, strengths, and weaknesses. Seek feedback from others and be open to learning more about yourself.</p><h2>3. Why is it important to be yourself?</h2><p>Being yourself allows you to live a more fulfilling and authentic life. It also helps build self-confidence and self-acceptance. When you are true to yourself, you attract people who appreciate and accept you for who you are.</p><h2>4. Can I change who I am?</h2><p>While certain aspects of ourselves may be difficult to change, such as our personality traits, we can always work on improving ourselves and our behaviors. However, it is important to remember that changing for the sake of others or societal pressures may not lead to true happiness.</p><h2>5. How can I encourage others to be themselves?</h2><p>Lead by example and show others that it is okay to be themselves. Celebrate individuality and avoid judgment or criticism. Encourage open and honest communication, and be a supportive and accepting friend or family member.</p>

1. What does it mean to "be yourself"?

"Be yourself" means being true to who you are, your values, beliefs, and personality. It involves being authentic and not trying to conform to societal expectations or pressures.

2. How can I know myself better?

Knowing yourself involves self-reflection and introspection. Take time to think about your likes, dislikes, strengths, and weaknesses. Seek feedback from others and be open to learning more about yourself.

3. Why is it important to be yourself?

Being yourself allows you to live a more fulfilling and authentic life. It also helps build self-confidence and self-acceptance. When you are true to yourself, you attract people who appreciate and accept you for who you are.

4. Can I change who I am?

While certain aspects of ourselves may be difficult to change, such as our personality traits, we can always work on improving ourselves and our behaviors. However, it is important to remember that changing for the sake of others or societal pressures may not lead to true happiness.

5. How can I encourage others to be themselves?

Lead by example and show others that it is okay to be themselves. Celebrate individuality and avoid judgment or criticism. Encourage open and honest communication, and be a supportive and accepting friend or family member.

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