Benazir Bhutto Killed in Bomb Blast

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  • #2
What a shame. She was a hero in many ways.

RIP... (very sad)
 
  • #4
Astronuc
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Yeah - I just caught the headline.

Benazir Bhutto was assassinated in a suicide bombing.
(AP) "At 6:16 p.m. she expired," said Wasif Ali Khan, a member of Bhutto's party who was at Rawalpindi General Hospital where she was taken after the attack.
 
  • #5
arildno
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As long as Muslims do not repudiate those elements within the Quran and the hadiths which give moral sanction to violent response to anyone not considered "Muslim enough", or being "insulting to the faith/Prophet", these types of actions will continue unabated, and spread its deadly consequences beyond the Dar-as-Salaam as well.

It is the moral duty of every Muslim to do that repudiation, in his heart and publicly in his sphere of influence.
 
  • #6
Curious3141
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As long as Muslims do not repudiate those elements within the Quran and the hadiths which give moral sanction to violent response to anyone not considered "Muslim enough", or being "insulting to the faith/Prophet", these types of actions will continue unabated, and spread its deadly consequences beyond the Dar-as-Salaam as well.

It is the moral duty of every Muslim to do that repudiation, in his heart and publicly in his sphere of influence.
This argument is slightly off-topic, because BB was likely killed for political expediency more than any sincere moral umbrage.

The problem with your stated hope is the Quran is taken as the inerrant word of (their) god, and strict adherence is required of a true, devout Muslim. Passive "slips" would probably be somewhat excusable, but a conscientious, declared repudiation? Think again.

Now, given that there are internal inconsistencies in the text of the Quran (as indeed with the bible and most other religious texts), I wonder how exactly Muslims can still hold the Quran to be the perfectly transmitted word of god, but that's an argument for another day.
 
  • #7
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This argument is slightly off-topic, because BB was likely killed for political expediency more than any sincere moral umbrage.
Ah, the classical religious-violence-isn't-really-about-religion argument. What do you think triggered it? If you claim that it is by political motivation only, then please explain where the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers are? Or why the Swedish social democrats didn't blow up the right when the lost the last election?

The problem with your stated hope is the Quran is taken as the inerrant word of (their) god, and strict adherence is required of a true, devout Muslim. Passive "slips" would probably be somewhat excusable, but a conscientious, declared repudiation? Think again.
Indeed, there is only one possible way to resolve that. Reason and secularization.
 
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  • #8
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Religious reason or political or even both, this is just sad. It is sad to see things like this happening in my country. These people really need to stop blowing themselves up to kill other innocent people.
 
  • #9
Ivan Seeking
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This is terrible!

It is more than a little frustrating that she knew people were gunning for her but she still left herself open to attack. Did she intend to be a martyr? She wasn't stupid so I have to wonder...
 
  • #10
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It is more than a little frustrating that she knew people were gunning for her but she still left herself open to attack. Did she intend to be a martyr? She wasn't stupid so I have to wonder...
During interviews she confirmed she knew he life was always in grave danger since returing, but felt her mission and the desire to improve her home country made the risk worthwhile. So I suppose deep down she did intend to be a martyr and knew it was just a matter of time. Whether is will have done any good is yet to be seen.
 
  • #11
arildno
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This argument is slightly off-topic, because BB was likely killed for political expediency more than any sincere moral umbrage.

The problem with your stated hope is the Quran is taken as the inerrant word of (their) god, and strict adherence is required of a true, devout Muslim. Passive "slips" would probably be somewhat excusable, but a conscientious, declared repudiation?
Indeed.So, that just means they have the moral responsibility to stop being that.

Of course, it is not only Muslims who have the moral responsibility. We all have that duty.

Similarly, all of us have the moral duty to repudiate the repellent maxims of "Mein Kampf", the difference being that the vast majority of us already have done so, and that we don't find it in the slightest "insensitive" to say to Nazis that they have vile attitudes incompatible with the values of a free society.
 
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  • #12
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Similarly, all of us have the moral duty to repudiate the repellent maxims of "Mein Kampf", the difference being that the vast majority of us already have done so, and that we don't find it in the slightest "insensitive" to say to Nazis that they have vile attitudes incompatible with the values of a free society.
But surely, it would be a major generalization to claim that all Nazis follows "Mein Kampf"? Surely, you should judge Nazism and the Nazis by the center, rather than the extremist fringe? Isn't such a generalization intolerant[URL [Broken][/URL] :rolleyes:
 
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  • #13
arildno
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But surely, it would be a major generalization to claim that all Nazis follows "Mein Kampf"? Surely, you should judge Nazism and the Nazis by the center, rather than the extremist fringe? Isn't such a generalization intolerant[URL [Broken][/URL] :rolleyes:
Yeah, I forgot.

How bad of me..
 
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  • #14
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Quote:
This argument is slightly off-topic, because BB was likely killed for political expediency more than any sincere moral umbrage.
Ah, the classical religious-violence-isn't-really-about-religion argument. What do you think triggered it? If you claim that it is by political motivation only, then please explain where the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers are? Or why the Swedish social democrats didn't blow up the right when the lost the last election?

Quote:
The problem with your stated hope is the Quran is taken as the inerrant word of (their) god, and strict adherence is required of a true, devout Muslim. Passive "slips" would probably be somewhat excusable, but a conscientious, declared repudiation? Think again.
Indeed, there is only one possible way to resolve that. Reason and secularization.

Umm...probably because she is a female candidate running a campaign based around bringing democracy to a country that has been in turmoil for years! I don't mean to be an ass, but that was one of the worst respones I've see out of you (Moridin) on this forum.
 
  • #15
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Umm...probably because she is a female candidate running a campaign based around bringing democracy to a country that has been in turmoil for years! I don't mean to be an ass, but that was one of the worst respones I've see out of you (Moridin) on this forum.
Why would that motivate an act of terror? Because the country has been in turmoil for years? What caused those turmoils? Want to take a guess? :uhh:
 
  • #16
BobG
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I take it most see no chance Musharraf had anything to do with Bhutto's assassination? He postponed the elections once and only removed emergency rule under some intense pressure. Musharraf would seem to have the most to gain.

Or else the current events prove Musharraf was right all along and that he shouldn't have bent under international pressure.

Right now, I think it would be hard to draw any conclusions from Bhutto's murder.
 
  • #18
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Tragic. What a brave woman.
Yeah a brave woman who lived a life of corruption.


Why don't the news sources present it like it really is? Bhutto is absolutely NO martyr.
 
  • #19
mheslep
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Yeah a brave woman who lived a life of corruption.
I certainly am not well read on her days as head of state, but I had the take that she was more like a U.S. Grant in that she allowed through ineptness or inattention corruption to run rampant, but she herself was not chiefly motivated by mere money and power. No?
 
  • #20
Astronuc
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Well, whether or not they did it - Al Qaeda is claiming responsibility for the assassination.

Al Qaeda takes credit for Bhutto assassination
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2007/12/al_qaeda_takes_credi.php
By Bill RoggioDecember 27, 2007 12:26 PM
Al Qaeda's central command is taking credit for today's successful assassination of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. A senior al Qaeda military leader in Afghanistan has contacted Syed Saleem Shahzad, a Pakistani journalist for the Asia Times and Adnkronos International with close connections to the Taliban and al Qaeda, and bragged about killing Bhutto.

"We terminated the most precious American asset which vowed to defeat [the] mujahadeen," Mustafa Abu al Yazid, al Qaeda's commander in Afghanistan, told Mr. Shazad. The attack was reportedly ordered at the highest levels of al Qaeda.

"It is believed that the decision to kill Bhutto, who is the leader of the opposition Pakistan People's Party (PPP), was made by al-Qaeda No. 2, the Egyptian doctor, Ayman al-Zawahiri in October," Mr. Shazad also reported. "Death squads were allegedly constituted for the mission and ultimately one cell comprising a defunct Lashkar-i-Jhangvi’s Punjabi volunteer succeeded in killing Bhutto."
Pakistan: Benazir Bhutto assassinated
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2007/12/pakistan_benazir_bhu.php
 
  • #21
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I certainly am not well read on her days as head of state, but I had the take that she was more like a U.S. Grant in that she allowed through ineptness or inattention corruption to run rampant, but she herself was not chiefly motivated by mere money and power. No?

Bhutto is/was accused of stealing $1.5 billion in form of government kickbacks and contracts. Bhutto is actually much more popular in the west than at home. She is remembered for having some of the worst human rights violations in Pakistan's history while being PM. She also did not allow media freedom--the same exact thing she criticized Musharraf for. These are just a few of the long list of things I can think of off the top of my head.
 
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  • #22
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According to the corruption charges against Bhutto, she would have fit right into the American political scene, right down to the six month suspended sentence.

Brian Whitaker
Friday August 8, 2003
The Guardian


Details emerged yesterday of how a £117,000 diamond necklace led to the former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto and her husband being convicted of money laundering by a Swiss court last week.
The pair were given suspended jail sentences of six months each and ordered to repay about £8m to the Pakistani government.

Although Ms Bhutto continues to deny the charges and says she intends to appeal, the Swiss investigating magistrate found that during her second term as prime minister she enriched herself or her husband with kickbacks from a government contract with two Swiss companies.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,2763,1014512,00.html
 
  • #23
jcsd
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I think people are being far to oversimplistic about what is a very complex poltical situation. There's four main elements vying for power in Pakistan currently (Bhutto's PPP, Musharraf's PML-Q, Sharif's PML-N and the Islamic militants).

Whilst the militants are the prime suspects for Bhutto's murder, it's not inconceivable that it could've been orchestrated by one of Bhutto's more secular opponents (poltical violnce and assasination is common in the region even in the more stable India). It's also worth noting that all the poltical parties profess to being guided by Islamic principles and all the actors are practicing Muslims, so a characterization of the situation as 'Muslims versus reason' nobody in Pakistan would agree with.

As for the corruption charges it is very difficult to judge how true they are given that the political situation
 
  • #24
Gokul43201
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Umm...probably because she is a female candidate running a campaign based around bringing democracy to a country that has been in turmoil for years!
And what is your point?

You don't think her being a woman in a position of power offends deep seated Islamic beliefs? You don't think her desire to weaken the power of Sharia law makes most deeply religious Pakistanis hate her for this?

Tragic. What a brave woman.
She was brave alright. But many people will not feel a whole lot of tragedy for the person that was the Taliban's strongest supporter in the mid-90's, a person that diverted over a billion dollars of state money into her personal swissbank accounts and been charged with corruption and money laundering in over a half dozen different countries.

References:

See Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001, by Steve Coll, pp. 290 - 295 (the book is searchable at https://www.amazon.com/dp/1594200076/?tag=pfamazon01-20&tag=pfamazon01-20)

The Bhutto Millions; A Background Check Far From Ordinary

http://www.samsloan.com/benazir.htm

Bhutto sentenced in Switzerland - ordered to return $11 million to Pak Govt

Poland gives Pak papers on $ 2-million Bhutto bribe



BobG, after recent unrest in Pakistan over Musharraf's spat with Chief Justice Chaudhry, I believe Musharraf was looking forward to building an alliance with Bhutto. That's the only way I can explain the amnesty he extended to her but not to Nawaz Sharif. I'd previously have thought that Musharraf would have been the one with most to gain from her death, but now I'm very skeptical of that idea.

Corruption amnesty may release millions for Bhutto

Pakistan's Government has cleared the way for Benazir Bhutto, the former Prime Minister, and her husband, to reclaim hundreds of millions of pounds frozen in Swiss bank accounts, according to senior anticorruption officials.

They say the prospect has been raised by a deal between Ms Bhutto and Pakistan’s military leader, President Musharraf, that will allow her to return home from exile this week.
 
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  • #25
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I think people are being far to oversimplistic about what is a very complex poltical situation. There's four main elements vying for power in Pakistan currently (Bhutto's PPP, Musharraf's PML-Q, Sharif's PML-N and the Islamic militants).

Whilst the militants are the prime suspects for Bhutto's murder, it's not inconceivable that it could've been orchestrated by one of Bhutto's more secular opponents (poltical violnce and assasination is common in the region even in the more stable India). It's also worth noting that all the poltical parties profess to being guided by Islamic principles and all the actors are practicing Muslims, so a characterization of the situation as 'Muslims versus reason' nobody in Pakistan would agree with.

As for the corruption charges it is very difficult to judge how true they are given that the political situation


You're quite correct. When I was in the area (not Pakistan but nearby), it was absolutely shocking how many politicians were assassinated. There isn't exactly a shortage of people in the Bengal region, but the newspapers are just full of death - keep in mind I mostly read the locals. There is only one reason this stands out, because the dead is of very high profile. Many less well-known politicians in the region tend to meet a sticky end regardless.

You don't think her being a woman in a position of power offends deep seated Islamic beliefs? You don't think her desire to weaken the power of Sharia law makes most deeply religious Pakistanis hate her for this?
I find your statement deeply ignorant. In neighbouring Bangladesh, they had Sheikh Hasina for PM at one point, and before that, Khaleda Zia - both women and both remained firmly attached to their body parts throughout their terms. In any case, such an event isn't surprising because the whole region has a history of extreme violence, it's only that there is now a very unstable nuclear-armed country around now.
 
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