Has the Mystery of the Bermuda Triangle Finally Been Debunked?

[mouseonmoon]

http://kjmatthews.users.btopenworld.com/cult_archaeology/introduction.html

this is a quote from Lawrence Kusche, a reference librarian at Arizona State University... results of his research in the Bermuda Triangle (The Bermuda Triangle mystery — solved, New English Library) 1975>quoted from above site:

"No theory so far proposed has been able to account satisfactorily for all or even most of the incidents. It has been suggested that to solve the mystery once and for all the area should be closed for a time to allow the government to send in remote-controlled vessels with monitoring equipment that would detect unusual phenomena. It has also been suggested that clairvoyants be called into give their impressions of forces at work.

Such measures are not necessary.

My research, which began as an attempt to find out as much information as possible about the Bermuda Triangle, had an unexpected result. After examining all the evidence I have reached the following conclusion: There is no theory that solves the mystery. It is no more logical to try to find a common cause for all the disappearances in the Triangle than, for example, to try to find one cause for all automobile accidents in Arizona. By abandoning the search for an overall theory and investigating each incident independently, the mystery began to unravel...

...The Legend of the Bermuda Triangle is a manufactured mystery. It began because of careless research and was elaborated upon and perpetuated by writers who either purposely or unknowingly made use of misconceptions, faulty reasoning, and sensationalism. It was repeated so many times that it began to take on the aura of truth."

 

[Ivan Seeking]

My take is that there were some unusual disappearances that may now be explained.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=27512

This is a quote from me six or so posts from the top. Much information follows.

Shortly after this post I clarify the correct name Methane Clathrate Hydrate. Also, it is a form of ice, not a salt. Andre jumped in a little ahead of me with this as well.

Yes, it is starting to appear that this is the true Bermuda Triangle Story. A few genuinely unsual disappearances were spun into a legend. The oversight has been that a few very unusual disappearances did happen. These disappearances were a hint at the dangers to shipping and oil drilling that large deposits of methyl hydroxide [methyl hydrate?] can pose. [I think this is the proper salt form found in the ocean floor]. When water hits a layer of this salt, a tremendous amount of gas can be generated. At least one oil platform hit one of these deposits while drilling and the platform was lost.

It is now suggested that an event of this type can be so large that it can have global effects. I will try to find some previously referenced links a little later.

 

[username]

...The Legend of the Bermuda Triangle is a manufactured mystery. It began because of careless research and was elaborated upon and perpetuated by writers who either purposely or unknowingly made use of misconceptions, faulty reasoning, and sensationalism. It was repeated so many times that it began to take on the aura of truth."

Sounds like some statistics are in order

 

[mouseonmoon]

agh-missed the thread----actually i recently saw the 'bubble theory' demonstrated on TV--very convincing--- and mentioned North Sea specificly---yet left out (?) aircraft.

Also remember seeing film of huge areas in the triangle that are 'white' and caused by some
organism that reproduces and disappears (dies) rapidly; suggesting the possibility of effecting the buoyancy...

yet essentially what i find interesting in Kusche's quote is it's relevance to a number of
' unsolved mysteries':

" to try to find one cause for all automobile accidents in Arizona. By abandoning the search for an overall theory and investigating each incident independently, the mystery began to unravel..."

This is the problem with UFOs--what a 'mystery'!

from 'Chariots of the Gods' to Roswell to 'lights in the sky' to 'abductions'--a 'myth' of 'mythic proportions' in a 'religious' sense (as C.S. Lewis might agree), indeed, consider
the 'contactees' stories-Adamaski,Van Tassel to the Raelians--mind boggle'in.

The reports of ET 'crashes' the last 50 years (what are they drinking!).

Of course, could be juvenile delinquents from Alpha X-only 5 thousand years old!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sounds like some statistics are in order

Really I suspect that statistics have been part of the fallacy. AFAIK, no statistical evidence exists to show that significantly more inccidents are found in the BT than elsewhere. The issue is more one of mysterious, or unexplained disapperances.

 

[username]

Really I suspect that statistics have been part of the fallacy. AFAIK, no statistical evidence exists to show that significantly more inccidents are found in the BT than elsewhere. The issue is more one of mysterious, or unexplained disapperances.

Surely unexplained disapperances are easily quantifiable, its just the mysterious ones that would be a problem.

EDIT: I guess it depends on what you classify as mysterious, maybe it cannot be classified? , and if so how do you know they are mysterious in the first place!

 

[Les Sleeth]

agh-missed the thread----actually i recently saw the 'bubble theory' demonstrated on TV--very convincing--- and mentioned North Sea specificly---yet left out (?) aircraft.

The Discovery Channel special I saw included a test done on an aircraft engine exposed to methane . . . in the right amounts, it killed the engine pretty fast.

The only thing I haven't seen mentioned from that Discovery Channel special (in this thread or the previous one Ivan linked to) was that the studies done on airplanes also showed that methane gas caused instruments to misbehave and falsely indicate the plane was turning upward. They surmised that some of the crashes could've happened in poor visibility situations when pilots responded by turning the plane downward.

Here's a link Discovery's coverage of the giant bubble study: http://dsc.discovery.com/news/afp/20031020/methane.html

 

[mouseonmoon]

Les Sleeth - cool!

Wish i could remember the show i saw (i don't receive Discovery Channel on the TV i remember seeing this, and only saw part of the show) -but the demonstration (and theory) concerned 'numerous bubbles'--and i don't remember whether methane or not?--but the idea was a massive amount of small bubbles rather than a 'huge bubble' as described in the Discovery article, would create a situation where the water wouldn't hold up a ship/boat, and it would happen suddenly.

What if an underwater volcano heated the water to boiling-could this create the same effect? ie. a lot of air bubbles in the water rising to the surface-the ship is then floating on air and sinks?


Also very interesting is this:These bubbles aren't any old round sphere, according to May. In fact, they are lens-shaped, with a flat bottom and a domed upper surface.

Reminds me of a UFO-it's not mentioned what happens when the bubble reaches the surface_does it disperse or keep it's shape-how high can it go?

Can it become 'charged'-positive or negative...Charles Forte reported 'balls of light' were frequently seen before and during volcanic erruptions.(it doesn't seem to be reported though nowadays?)

thanks for the link!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Surely unexplained disapperances are easily quantifiable, its just the mysterious ones that would be a problem.

So it would seem. Unfortunately this is not the issue addressed by statistical arguments, AFAIK anyway.

EDIT: I guess it depends on what you classify as mysterious, maybe it cannot be classified? , and if so how do you know they are mysterious in the first place!

Typically this might mean a lack of any good explanation. For example: The weather was calm, no radio signal was received, no life rafts were found, no ship was found.

An interesting note: It seems that in some cases, such as some that involve large private yachts, modern pirates are the culprits. There have been few insurance scams as well.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I was really struck by this account from the other thread.

In 1966, a tugboat captain, Don Henry was on his way from Puerto Rico to Fort Lauderdale on a clear afternoon. Suddenly the compasses on his tug began to spin wildly as a strange darkness descended on them and the horizon couldn’t be seen. Water was coming in all directions, and their electrical power failed completely. A dense fog covered their tug. Luckily, their engine kept going and they moved out of the fog. Looking back, the fog was densely concentrated in a solid block, "a bank." Inside this area, the sea was boiling. Outside this area, the sea was calm.

http://www.coverups.com/bermuda.htm

It sounds to me like this tugboat may have run into a large gas release in action. rogress.

 

[username]

I don't really like testimonials, like undisputable physical evivence even matmatical models is better. The idea of giant bubbles just seems ridiuclas surely these bubbles released from such depth and pressure would dissapate before reaching the surface imnot a physicist but this just seems like comman sense. If it wqas really true I would like to think there was more likely explations, sociological maybe (is that a word?).

EDIT: Dunno but I think some more research is needed as a precursor before comming to any conclusions on this sort of thing.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is believed that releases of methane due to clarthrates can be so large so as to produce global events. Also, we have seen a large oil platform sank by one of these - there is no doubt about this particular event.

 

[Atrayo]

Hi All,

I also saw the other night ago ( 2 days ago) that same 2 hour special on the "Discovery Channel" on the Bermuda Triangle. It was indeed "methane" gas, and when they did that test with an old mothballed airplane diesal engine. It took only ".955" percent, less than 1 percent of methane to knock out that engine.

That test was done, since Graham Hawkes http://www.deepflight.com/team/graham.htm led an expedition to find that fabled "Flight 19" of 5 US Navy Avengers that got lost in 1943 off of Florida's coast. What he found instead was 12 miles off the coast of Fort Lauderdale Florida was in a 1 and a half mile zone. Was 5 US avenger planes ditched, although these planes weren't "Flight 19".

That's what the discovery channel program covered in part. They also had two jet airline pilots in a flight simulator fly into a simulated methane gas pocket. Like Les Sleeth stated, they're instrumentation of the altimeter was going up like crazy. But, the simulated plane was actually plummenting, so if a pilot went just by their instrumentation they would've splashed into the ocean each time. The 2 airline jet pilots, were able to save the jet plane but stated they were never trained for something like that.

Graham Hawkes had discovered some new craters (talking about one 300 foot) on the ocean bottom off of Fort Lauderdale, that NOAA or some other outfit declared that didn't exist. Probably due to further ruptures of methane since that area was mapped underwater.

The water tank at a University Oceanagraphic lab where they did the scaled experiement of a 900 ft tanker. The tanker didn't sink with a direct hit in the aft (rear) of the ship. But, it did sink in less than 3 seconds if it took a hit in the middle or the stern (front) of the scaled tanker. In that time, no one can send a distress call if hit by such a methane gas pocket bubble.

--------

Something else i read a couple of weeks ago that is sort of related. NASA has been launching 3 satellites to record land, air, sea data. One of them has recorded that what was suspected to be tsunami sized "rogue waves" that only occur each 10 thousand years. Isn't the case at all, that 10 of these rogue waves were reocorded last year by one of these Earth satellites. And, that this is a common oceanagraphic phenomena that occurs.

So figure in at least some of those "rogue waves" also occurring in the Atlantic ocean, if not the "Bermuda Triangle".

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What he found instead was 12 miles off the coast of Fort Lauderdale Florida was in a 1 and a half mile zone. Was 5 US avenger planes ditched, although these planes weren't "Flight 19".

I didn't see this particular show; the information about the engines is very interesting.

I have heard about these other five avengers. I wonder if its possible that the old records were wrong? I have never seen the 5 planes found identified, or their presense there explained. Was this discussed in the show? Has this been resolved? Are we certain that these are not the same planes?

 

[Atrayo]

Hello Ivan Seeking, (Btw you share my RL first name )

I have never seen the 5 planes found identified, or their presense there explained. Was this discussed in the show? Has this been resolved? Are we certain that these are not the same planes? ---Ivan Seeking.

When Graham Hawkes had first made the discovery of those 5 avenger naval planes in such a close proximity. I remembered as a teenager in Miami the news hoopla, that they probably have found "flight 19".

Upon further investigation they ran the call sign numbers painted on the plane, or other markings with Flight 19, and it wasn't a match. They also i believe pinpointed that these other 5 avengers all ditched on separate occasions over the years, and not all at once like Flight 19.

They pretty much made the correlation that this 1 and a half mile zone probably has or did have methane bubble pops. Then the same phenomena may have engulfed flight 19, and the recon sea lane (sorta like the spruce goose model) plane that was sent immediately afterwards that was lost also.

However the recon sea plane, had been know to have fuel injection problems in it's design.

 

[whydoyouwanttoknow]

Many parts of the ocean floor are covered in methane "sludge."

These can break off and rise to the surface in huge bubbles. If a ship is partly in the bubble and partly out it will sink. If it's a large ship it will break in 2 and sink.


I saw one documentary on how to solve Flight 19. Apparently many of the islands look very similar. They believe that Flight 19 thought their compasses were broken because they got confused by the islands and thought they were flying in a direction their compasses said they weren't. This caused them to fly out to sea while following an island chain they believed was going to bring them home. In fact this island chain was the wrong one.

The lead pilot probably did the one thing a pilot should never do... he believed he was right and his instruments were wrong and got caught up in this and refused to believe otherwise. This meant that he continued to fly out to sea even as the Tower tried to help bring him home. If he'd sat back, taken a breath and cleared his head he probably would've realized his mistake and once again flown by the compass. The other pilots died because they were trained to follow the leader.

 

[username]

Many parts of the ocean floor are covered in methane "sludge."

These can break off and rise to the surface in huge bubbles. If a ship is partly in the bubble and partly out it will sink. If it's a large ship it will break in 2 and sink.

Is there any physical evidence of this except experiments in fishtanks and toy boats (oil rigs excluded)?
EDIT changed evidence to physical evidence

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Bermuda Triangle mystery solved? It's a load of gas

In a report published in the September issue of the American Journal of Physics, Monash University's Professor Joseph Monaghan and honours student David May said that a trawler discovered resting in a large methane crater off the east coast of Scotland may have been sunk by a huge gas bubble. The possibly lethal gas bubbles are created by underwater deposits of methane that have built up over thousands of years.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/22/1066631498889.html?oneclick=true

 

[Atrayo]

Hello whydoyouwanttoknow,

They believe that Flight 19 thought their compasses were broken because they got confused by the islands and thought they were flying in a direction their compasses said they weren't. ---whydoyouwanttoknow.

In that Discovery Channel documentary on the "Bremuda Triangle". They mentioned that they believed that the flight leader (instructor) who was the 1st lietunent. Had a spatial disorder that pilots can get, which leads to confusion. So he basically didn't know "heads from tails", and ignored his compass. The flight tower at Fort Lauderdale told the flight instructor to fly west. He responded he didn't know which way was "west".

Thus the air cadets followed the instructor to their demise, unfortunately.

 

[CJames]

Is there any physical evidence of this except experiments in fishtanks and toy boats (oil rigs excluded)?
EDIT changed evidence to physical evidence

According to the video, yes. Many parts of the sea floor in the Bermunda Triangle are slowly trickling out methane gas. Experiments showed that to kill some airplane engines it would only require 1% more methane, which was a huge suprise. Methane was first suspected when an oil rig nearly sunk when it accidently drilled into a methane pocket. To sink a ship it takes more than the steady trickle. A large bubble could however sink a ship in under ten seconds with no time to call for help. Over 100 boats a year are lost in the BT, mostly small home ones. Much of this has to do with the weather, but the rest could be these bubbles.

 

[username]

Still not conviced show me some evidence etc without the holes.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Discussions continued from this thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=82614

 

[Chronos]

I think the Discovery Channel did a very good job of documenting flight 19. These guys simply got lost and ran out of gas. They stayed together and ditched together, just like the squad leader ordered. Pilots were heavily dependent upon visual landmarks, not instruments, in those days. It is no stretch to see how the squad leader could misinterpret his position and travel in the wrong directio - if you don't know where you're at, a compass isn't much help in getting you to where you want to go. That explanation is consistent with all the evidence. No methane required. But the methane hypothesis remains compelling in the case of surface ships. A sudden, huge release would definitely create the potential for unexplained disappearances. A seaslide, or fairly minor seismological event could plausibly trigger such an event.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There are several other significant incidents that involve aircraft, but I agree, the F19 mystery seems to be explained. What bad luck that the rescue plane would blow up in flight!

One remaining mystery is that of reported compass failures.