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Featured I Beyond LHC, future particle colliders and lasers

  1. Aug 30, 2017 #21

    mfb

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    Yes, because the technology is not ready yet. You can't plan a collider if you have no idea how you would have to build it.

    20+ years is the time frame for FCC operation, construction could start by 2025.
    20+ years is the time frame for planning a plasma acceleration collider, construction would start by 2040 or so if everything works out.
    Plasma acceleration could lead to higher energies, that leads to things you can study that you cannot study with existing accelerators. The achievable collision rate is unclear.
     
  2. Aug 30, 2017 #22
    if plasma acceleration collider could be built, how much would it cost, and what kind of performance could be achieved?

    Both CERN and China have researched FCC. Would the countless $ billions of dollars spent on the proposed FCC be better spent on making the technology for plasma acceleration collider ready?
     
  3. Aug 30, 2017 #23

    mfb

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    See above: You can't know these things as long as the technology is not ready.
    The amount of money spent on FCC design studies is tiny.
    What about "there are numerous projects studying plasma acceleration" was unclear?
     
  4. Aug 30, 2017 #24
    Popular news articles say the projected cost of a FCC is somewhere between $10-20 billion dollars, and includes digging a tunnel to fit a 50-100km ring. the Texas SCSC had a ring partially dug when the whole thing was canned.

    Would the $10-20 billion that would be spent on FCC and completed by 2050 at the earliest be better spent engineering a plasma acceleration now, based on studies. in effect the LHC is the last of the line of hadron colliders, and future colliders are based on plasma acceleration. Weinberg Witten Hawking et al, testify before US Congress pleading Donald Trump to allocate billions on colliders are based on plasma acceleration as future of HEP.
     
  5. Aug 30, 2017 #25

    mfb

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    Projected cost. Not the money spent on it now.
    Where does that year come from?
    We cannot do that now.
    How often do I have to repeat that?

    We don't even know if plasma acceleration can work for colliders at all.
     
  6. Aug 30, 2017 #26
    Speaking at a conference on the Higgs boson here at the Royal Society in January, Wyatt outlined what kind of enormous science experiments would be needed to go beyond the science that the LHC may deliver.

    "The tunnel to house such a machine might possibly be completed by around 2040," he added. "In addition, such a tunnel could also house an accelerator to collide electrons and positrons at a much lower energy, but nevertheless sufficient to produce and study Higgs bosons."

    Finally, scientists are looking into a possibility of a ring that would smash muons — the heavy cousins of electrons — together. It could potentially be housed at Fermilab, Wyatt said, but it probably wouldn't be built anytime soon — maybe sometime between 2040 and 2050. [Images: Inside the World's Top Physics Labs]
    ref
    https://www.livescience.com/43274-future-colliders-dwarf-lhc-atom-smasher.html
     
  7. Aug 30, 2017 #27

    mfb

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    That is not the earliest possible date then.

    A muon collider also needs more R&D. The MICE group is testing muon cooling, the most critical part, at the moment.
     
  8. Sep 11, 2017 #28
    I agree that the next particle colliders will be built in one of the world's superpowers like China or Japan. Since they do not have any yet, and their scientific contribution and research has improved, I believe they will build the next ones. They also would construct some different or more effective colliders, because they might wish to stand out from the already existing atomic research companies. This will include innovative technology and engineering.
     
  9. Sep 11, 2017 #29

    mfb

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    Both China and Japan have colliders. Not at the energy frontier currently (although Tristan was there in the past), but at energies and collision rates relevant for flavor physics. Japan's Super-KEKB will break the luminosity record (set by KEKB - Japan as well) soon, probably within two years, and become the most powerful B-factory in the world, and the only one still running.
     
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