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Beyond light

  1. Quantum tunneling

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. Wormholes

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Inflationary acceleration

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  4. Dark energy

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  5. Higgs true/false vacuua

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  6. Bell entanglement

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  7. Mental telepathy

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. FTL signaling is impossible

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Mar 16, 2003 #1
    By what means might superluminal communication manifest?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 17, 2003 #2

    russ_watters

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    Staff: Mentor

    You forgot one option: it won't.
     
  4. Mar 17, 2003 #3
  5. Mar 17, 2003 #4

    russ_watters

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    Naaa. How do you get anything coherent out of a black hole?
     
  6. Mar 17, 2003 #5
    in a vacuum, not a black hole. In addition to the fact that a perfect vacuum is impossible, there is also the negative energy. There could be 0 positive energy, but tons more of -E.
    did you take a look at the site I mentioned above? it talks about the whole plight in detail.(it has a really cool picture of a wormhole too).
     
  7. Mar 18, 2003 #6
    Talking about superluminal velocities is really pushing the boundaries of physics. As far as I know, wormholes are the only option aside from lucky quantum tunneling. And worholes are walking on shaky ground. It takes negative mass, something that may not exist, to hold one of them open enough to let us through. Sounds to me like sticking something into an equation 'cause it solves the problem, but doesn't exist in reality. Maybe like tachyons? It's a possibility, don't get me wrong. But it's out there a ways. At least that's how it seems to me.
     
  8. Mar 18, 2003 #7
    russ_watters
    You overlooked the last option.
     
  9. Mar 18, 2003 #8
    Way to shoot him right down Lbooda. I must admit, however, to not really looking at the poll options either...
     
  10. Mar 18, 2003 #9
    I think the only theoretical candidate is probably a wormhole. However as previously mentioned the ability to "prop" wormholes open depends on an exotic state of gravitational repulsion. Dark Energy/Matter (which we no little about) and also possible vacuum states that allow for negative energy densities (i.e. Casimir Effect) are possible candidates that create wormhole stability. However of course there is the matter of generating the wormhole to begin with. So its all very skeptical grounds at this point. The only other possibility is perhaps entangled states. As far as we know now Bell Entanglement cannot be sued to transmit any “useful” information. However this may all change with increasing knowledge of entangled states. Already a photon has been teleported by a team in Australia and further research in Quantum Cryptography is underway; both of which deal with entangled states. Perhaps there is some symmetry and logic that can be encoded with in entangled states and then exploited in a Bells Theorem like manner to allow for FTL transmission of useful information.
     
  11. Mar 18, 2003 #10

    russ_watters

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    And yet another option: Low reading comprehension. Oops.

    I read some but not all. And I must admit that what I know of wormholes is a little thin, but isn't this guy mixing two theories here? Aren't wormholes just two black holes sharing the same center (singularity)? I'm pretty sure thats what A Brief History of Time says. BTW, anyone ever notice if you lend out that book you never get it back?

    Or can you get a different type of wormhole with vacuum energy? Maybe I'll read a little more.

    That picture is close enough to a scene in a Star Trek episode, I believe thats where they got the idea.

    Don't the same theories that explain things like quantum teleporation also imply that you can't ever send anything useful that way? The double edged sword of the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle: you CAN get something for nothing, just if you get too much of it it becomes nothing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2003
  12. Mar 18, 2003 #11
    Absolutely. As far as we know now right now there is no useful information that can be encrypted in entangled states. But that does not rule out the possibility in it entirety. Future knowledge of more complex entangled states MIGHT lead to some type of useful FTL transmission. The key word is might, its all very shaky ground at this point. Before Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier in the XS-1 in 1947 people thought is was impossible. Sure our equations for relativity and current understanding of modern physics say FTL travel is practically impossible, but there is a slight chance it may work out to be true in the future. You never really know, we are at a position when we can only speculate.
     
  13. Mar 18, 2003 #12

    russ_watters

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    I know you know thats an invalid analogy.
     
  14. Mar 18, 2003 #13
    And it is for obvious reasons. The sound barrier was obviously theoretical possible however it simply was technologically inaccessible before 1947. Currently light speed is a theoretical maximum speed and technologically impossible to surpass. Tachyons have never been observed and relativity predicts what happens when things approach the speed of light and that objects cannot surpass the speed of light. There are those who feel relativity is not the final say concerning the speed of light. I’m not saying that I feel that the speed of light can or cannot be surpassed. I’m simply saying that we shouldn’t allow our ignorance to rule out the possibility.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2003
  15. Mar 18, 2003 #14

    russ_watters

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    I'll give you that. It doesn't seem likely to me though.
     
  16. Mar 18, 2003 #15


    Wormholes are NOT singularities. here's a definition:


    Why is negative energy needed to "make" a womehole?

    WORMHOLE FORUMULA:
    "Tie" quantum foam with a cosmic string.

    Is this feasible?
     
  17. Mar 19, 2003 #16

    LURCH

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    My incomplete understanding leads me to believe that entanglement could be employed to this purpose. I understand the phenominon to a certain extent
    (the point at which all the text written at the laymen's level leave off). At this level of understanding, there is a technique by which entanglement could be used to transmit information. The understanding of what properties or principles of QM would render this technique unusable are not yet known to me.
     
  18. Mar 19, 2003 #17

    russ_watters

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    That definition is incomplete. It doesn't say how they work or what their properties are. Damn, I wish my dad would give back that book....lemme look around a little.

    [five minutes later] Sweeeeeet. ABHOT online: http://cs-people.bu.edu/dbera/dload/Stephen_Hawking-A_Brief_History_Of_Time/i.html
    So thats where I got the singularity bit. Its still not entirely clear though. Essentially (if I understand correctly), curvature of space-time comes from gravity so doesn't that mean if you want to curve space-time a lot you need a LOT of gravity? IE a black hole? I'm still not clear on how you CREATE a wormhole.

    In any case, he goes further:
    Ok, negative energy is a quirk of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. It has been detected and DOES exist. But like everything else in HUP, doesn't it disappear in the macro scale? Apparently not:
    And he concludes:
    So with our current state of knowledge, time travel on the macro scale *IS* theoretically possible. I wouldn't bet on it either though.
     
  19. Mar 21, 2003 #18
    Wormholes do not contain singularities. However, they are unstable and prone to collapse; when a wormhole collapses, two singularities are created. The act of collapsing destroys the wormhole, resulting in two black holes (one for each mouth of the former wormhole).
     
  20. Mar 21, 2003 #19
    i thought wormholes contained ring singularities. How else would you travel between them?
     
  21. Mar 22, 2003 #20
    what's a ring singularity?



    Easy:
    "tie" quantum foam with a cosmic string.

    This data is from a book called "Blackholes, Whiteholes, and time machines" by Jim Khalili (sp?)

    I read it a LONG time ago, but my memory's pretty good...i think
     
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