Group Definition: Closure Not Required?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the definition of a group in mathematics and whether it is necessary to mention the property of closure in the definition. While it is not necessary, it is often included for clarity and to verify that the operation is indeed a binary operation. The conversation also mentions the redundancy in how axioms are stated in order to appear cleaner and the possibility of defining a group without explicitly mentioning a binary operation.
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radou
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In the definition of a group on mathworld, http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Group.html" , implies closure, so, isn't it unnecessary to talk about the property closure in the definition of a group?
 
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What do you mean "isn't it sufficient to talk about the property of closure in the definition of a group?" It is not necessary to talk about the property of closure in the defintion of a group. But "not necessary" is not the same thing as "sufficient". Anyways, although it is not necessary, in theory, to talk about the property of closure, you are often just given a set S with a function * with domain SxS, and you have to verify that * is indeed an operation, that is, that closure does indeed hold.
 
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AKG said:
What do you mean "isn't it sufficient to talk about the property of closure in the definition of a group?" It is not necessary to talk about the property of closure in the defintion of a group. But "not necessary" is not the same thing as "sufficient". Anyways, although it is not necessary, in theory, to talk about the property of closure, you are often just given a set S with a function * with domain SxS, and you have to verify that * is indeed an operation, that is, that closure does indeed hold.

Yes, I corrected that, I meant 'not necessary'. OK, I get it, it's more general, since we don't always know if * is a binary operation.
 
  • #4
There is often redundancy in how axioms. The statements are usually made so as to appear as clean as possible. One can, and often does, define a group without invoking the strict definition of binary operation, and just takes it to mean some operation that takes two objects and gives a third without necessarily saying where the third lies.
 

1. What is "Group Definition: Closure Not Required"?

"Group Definition: Closure Not Required" is a concept in mathematics that describes a set of elements that do not necessarily need to produce a new element when combined. This means that the set is closed under the operation defined on it, and therefore does not require closure to be considered a group.

2. How is "Group Definition: Closure Not Required" different from a regular group?

In a regular group, closure is required, meaning that combining any two elements in the group will always result in another element within the group. However, in a group with closure not required, there may be combinations of elements that do not produce a new element, but the set is still considered a group because it is closed under the defined operation.

3. Can a group have closure not required for some operations, but not others?

Yes, it is possible for a group to have closure not required for one operation, but not for another. For example, a set of integers under addition has closure not required, since adding two integers may not always result in another integer. However, the same set under multiplication does require closure, as multiplying two integers will always produce another integer.

4. What is an example of a group with closure not required?

One example is the set of all rational numbers (fractions) under addition. While adding two rational numbers may not always result in another rational number, the set is still closed under addition and thus considered a group.

5. How is "Group Definition: Closure Not Required" used in real-world applications?

Group theory, including the concept of closure not required, has various applications in fields such as physics, chemistry, and computer science. For example, in quantum mechanics, symmetries of a system can be described using group theory, including groups with closure not required. In chemistry, group theory is used to classify and predict properties of molecules. In computer science, group theory is used in cryptography to develop secure algorithms.

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