What Drives the Madness of Black Friday Shopping?

[Ivan Seeking]

You can say "what happened to individual responsibility", and frankly, it's out the window as soon as you are unable to enforce it. And in situations with a huge mob of people, you just can't.

I believe those who inflict violence could have either criminal or civil liability, or both, depending on their actions, and the stores have civil liability for failing to control the crowd. It's not an exclusive situation. Individuals are still responsible for their actions. But the stores are effectively yelling fire in a crowded theater [yelling Elmo in a nutty country?].

It is illegal to incite a mob, which is effectively the result of these rush sales.

 

[turbo]

I believe those who inflict violence could have either criminal or civil liability, or both, depending on their actions, and the stores have civil liability for failing to control the crowd. It's not an exclusive situation. Individuals are still responsible for their actions. But the stores are effectively yelling fire in a crowded theater [yelling Elmo in a nutty country?].

It is illegal to incite a mob, which is effectively the result of these rush sales.

Quoting ridiculously low prices (loss-leaders) on a very limited supply of inventory is the stock-in-trade of these big businesses. Yes, they get a crush of customers that way, but they also generate aggressive behaviors in the greedy and the clueless. Legally, these sales are probably on a par with "attractive nuisance" lawsuits in which a homeowner doesn't properly enclose a swimming pool so a child drowns, or otherwise engages in negligent behavior. The big-box stores are far more than negligent, IMO. They create these conditions intentionally as a part of their business plan, and they seem to be able to fly under the radar when people are injured or killed.

 

[dlgoff]

I just had a thought (probably not the right thing to do now days). But why not let them duke it out? Winner takes all. Or at least the opponent surrenders. Maybe a good show plus good sales.

 

[rhody]

I just had a thought (probably not the right thing to do now days). But why not let them duke it out? Winner takes all. Or at least the opponent surrenders. Maybe a good show plus good sales.

Oh God, another freaking reality show, Occupy my goodies !

Rhody...

P.S. I just watched the PBS special on Lucille Ball's life and was left feeling sort of sad, what the hell has happened to us as a society.

 

[dlgoff]

Oh God, another freaking reality show, Occupy my goodies !.

:rofl: Just trying to make your day.

 

[turbo]

I just had a thought (probably not the right thing to do now days). But why not let them duke it out? Winner takes all. Or at least the opponent surrenders. Maybe a good show plus good sales.

Black Friday Death Match!

 

[rhody]

I thought I would post what I bought, the skis, very nice just spent time peeling labels, price tags off them, they are dual wood core,
so they should last longer than the foam core ones, pretty light and decent looking as well, almost matches the color scheme on my
beast of a bike, who would have guessed.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1430/volklskis.jpg

Rhody... :tongue2:

 

[KingNothing]

That is arguing mob violence is OK but individual violence is not.

Nope, it isn't. I'm simply saying that its pointless to use "individual responsibility" as a means to improve the situation, because you can't enforce it.

I'm not saying people aren't responsible as individuals on some moral level, but that doesn't exactly change the situation because frankly not everyone has moral barriers like you and I, and when you combine that with the mob situation where it is nearly impossible to police...

Basically, I'm saying that in the spirit of coming up with a safer way to do black friday, I haven't heard a better option than making the stores responsible.

 

[KingNothing]

I thought I would post what I bought, the skis, very nice just spent time peeling labels, price tags off them, they are dual wood core,
so they should last longer than the foam core ones, pretty light and decent looking as well, almost matches the color scheme on my
beast of a bike, who would have guessed.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1430/volklskis.jpg

Rhody... :tongue2:

Those are beautiful. I love how they are sleek-and-sexy, rather than the busy, in-your-face modern style of skis that you see a lot.

 

[rhody]

Post Black Friday, Best Buy resorts and (succeeds) sinking to a new low, nice...

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-22/best-buy-cancels-some-online-orders-after-hot-items-sell-out.html

Dec. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Best Buy Co., the world’s largest consumer-electronics retailer, canceled some customers’ online orders after it ran out of popular merchandise.

“Overwhelming demand of hot product offerings” on BestBuy.com led to the cancellations, Lisa Hawks, a spokeswoman for the Richfield, Minnesota-based retailer, said today in an e-mail. She declined to disclose the number of orders that won’t be filled or identify the items.

The canceled orders covered the weekend after Thanksgiving, when Best Buy stepped up discounts against Amazon.com Inc. and Wal-Mart Stores Inc. Best Buy promoted “aggressively online,” leading to higher traffic and an increase in sales by stores open at least 14 months,

Rhody...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I believe those who inflict violence could have either criminal or civil liability, or both, depending on their actions, and the stores have civil liability for failing to control the crowd. It's not an exclusive situation. Individuals are still responsible for their actions. But the stores are effectively yelling fire in a crowded theater [yelling Elmo in a nutty country?].

It is illegal to incite a mob, which is effectively the result of these rush sales.

Yelling "fire" in a crowded place is easily considered by the average person likely to cause a panic and stampede. "Half off xboxs" generally is not considered likely to produce the "Get my pepper spray, we're goin shoppin!" response.

 

[xxChrisxx]

"Half off xboxs" generally is not considered likely to produce the "Get my pepper spray, we're goin shoppin!" response.

Half off an expensive prouct, that my son would enjoy this for Chirstmas and would... love mE... more a... WAIT, WHAT, ONLY FOUR LEFT IN THE STORE... wAiT i w4NT ONWEEeeE, NN3ED ThiS N0wWW"""""""""""""!'Frenzy.

 

[xxChrisxx]

People are purposely and deliberately whipped into a state where they are not acting rationally, by aggressive marketing. (Mania probably isn't too far from the real scenario)

Adverts leading up to the Christmas period are designed to implant not just the want but the NEED! for product X. It's a slow and insidious, but the suggestion is non the less implanted.
Cue, a 'sale'. Everyone loves a bargin, and it gets people out to the shops.
Cue, 'while stocks last' 'finishing soon'. Even if there is a warehouse full. This creates an impending sense of dread of 'missing out'.

The whole process is designed to make the purchasing decision a purely emotional process.

As some people are easy to manipulate emotionally, and some are bordering on unstable. You get the result of people who pepper spray others, but aren't rational at the time they act.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Typically to be charged with having incited a riot one must have intentionally done something that a reasonable person would consider likely to have produced the result. If I say or do something that is not going to cause the average person to flip their lid and yet wind up with some unstable person flipping their lid it is not my fault.

Now do you think that you can show a statistical correlation between these sorts of sales events and such behavior?

Just a couple months ago a guy at the bar next to my place got upset and pepper sprayed a groups of people outside the bar. Wasn't on the news.

But what about what is in the news?
Woman sprays cleaner in the ice cream man's face.
http://www.kplctv.com/story/16374768/road-rage-results-in-pepper-spraying
http://www.goupstate.com/article/20111222/articles/111229915
http://www.news-mail.com.au/story/2011/12/12/patrons-cop-pepper-spray-sugarland-tavern/
People in McDonalds pepper sprayed over "harassment".
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/12/05/ottawa-pepper-spray-bus_n_1129414.html

Apparently it is not terribly unusual for people to flip out and pepper spray people in our normal day to day world. I considered looking up pepper spray assault statistics but it would likely include persons using pepper spray in the commission of a crime such as robbery. I specifically left out those sorts of stories (of which there were many) and I also specifically looked for pepper spray stories rather than just general assault. I am sure we could find plenty of instances of people getting in fist fights over stupid things or hitting people with their cars.

So tell me... in the face of several stories about people pepper spraying others because they were upset or perhaps just plain crazy can you really tell me that on a day when large numbers of people are packing into thousands of stores all over the country you are surprised that some of them were emotionally unstable and assaulted others for apparently trifling reasons?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yelling "fire" in a crowded place is easily considered by the average person likely to cause a panic and stampede. "Half off xboxs" generally is not considered likely to produce the "Get my pepper spray, we're goin shoppin!" response.

Last year one man was trampled to death by a shopping crowd rushing out of control. This isn't just about pepper spray.

 

[ThomasT]

Last year one man was trampled to death by a shopping crowd rushing out of control. This isn't just about pepper spray.

Right, so unless one is obsessed with obtaining a particular item at a particular cost, then one needn't be concerned with trampling or getting trampled at black friday debacles. Point taken. Case closed. Let's move along.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Last year one man was trampled to death by a shopping crowd rushing out of control. This isn't just about pepper spray.

And last year sports fans took to the streets and rioted multiple times. That such incidents occur is not in dispute. What causes them is the question. When you have thousands of stores all across the United States having similar sales and you point to one incident as being an indicator of what to reasonably expect in such a scenario there is a problem with your logic.

 

[rhody]

And last year sports fans took to the streets and rioted multiple times. That such incidents occur is not in dispute. What causes them is the question. When you have thousands of stores all across the United States having similar sales and you point to one incident as being an indicator of what to reasonably expect in such a scenario there is a problem with your logic.

Perhaps the "root cause" of all this hysteria is the focus on "things you can purchase leads to happiness", which indicates much deeper psychological issues, agree ? Clearly rampant consumerism is not the answer to society's ills..."

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

There have been issues this year with Air Jordans. Who would fight one another to spend $180 on a pair of sneakers?

 

[rhody]

There have been issues this year with Air Jordans. Who would fight one another to spend $180 on a pair of sneakers?

People who think: "things you can purchase lead to happiness", and I might add to show status or exclusivity or that somehow owning a pair makes you special or above all the rest, or worthy of respect. Have I forgotten anything ?

Rhody...