Black Hole in Fiction - need help

  • Thread starter hairyllama
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  • #1

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Hey guys... I don't know much about Physics.

I'm working on a Fictional story that revolves around an accidental black hole creation...

I would love to get a few pointers so that the fiction is is somewhat plausible.

1. Is there any theoretically plausible way for a small black hole to be created on earth, that does not evaporate immediately? (visually what would be cool is a 5 ft light-bending black hole hovering above ground)

2. If such an entity were created, what would be some theoretical ways to contain it? (electromagnetic fields etc.)

3. What would be some theoretical ways to destroy the black hole?

If you guys have any ideas, it would be much appreciated! Thanks.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
cepheid
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Welcome to PF,

What I know is that for the black hole to survive on human timescales, it would have to be larger than a certain mass. And if you are attempting to cram that amount of mass into such a small volume (the Schwarzchild radius), then you already have big problems even before the black hole is successfully formed. Those high densities would lead to such strong gravitation that the matter would be incredibly destructive to its surroundings, and there would be no way to "contain" those effects, especially not electromagnetically (since the effects are gravitational). Of course, I don't think such high densities could feasibly be achieved in a lab anyway.
 
  • #3
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1. Not that I'm aware of - not sure if we have enough matter to achieve it, let alone the ability to compress it.

2. No

3. None - well, waiting for the universe to die should do it.
 
  • #4
Don't go the route of a real black hole. It is too absurd something that gravitationally powerful would A: maintain a fixed position in relation to Earth, and B: Not instantly fry everything in the solar system with the cosmic level of EM and hard radiation emitted by in-falling material.

Oh yea and the gravity gradients (tidal forces) would completely wreck the planet within moments because *we* would be in orbit around it. Think of what happens to overly dry PlayDoh when you try to roll them in your hands to make a sphere.

All this assumes something of human-scale size. Seems like from the math black holes are either devastating or insignificant, no in between.
 
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  • #5
Sanescience, what if it started as insignificant but was quickly growing out of control?

Are there any other kinds of theoretical "devices" similar to a black hole (Dangerous, can grow/change, could be created by accident) that I could use that would be slightly more plausible?

Thanks!
 
  • #6
2,685
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Sanescience, what if it started as insignificant but was quickly growing out of control?

Are there any other kinds of theoretical "devices" similar to a black hole (Dangerous, can grow/change, could be created by accident) that I could use that would be slightly more plausible?

Thanks!
Nothing what-so-ever.

I know it sounds depressing, but that's the reality of it.

Now, it is sci-fi on the other hand and as I always tell people who come here relating to it - you can do what you like, just don't try to explain it.

If you want, you could have scientists discover some alien reactor buried deep in the earth which runs on a contained black hole (Star Trek Voyager anyone?). That would cover your need for a black hole (let's say scientists tried to move/copy it and failed badly) and ignore any science issues.

There's an endless set of possibilities for you - just don't try to make it realistic (aka based on actual physics) if you're going to take this approach.
 
  • #7
Drakkith
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Sanescience, what if it started as insignificant but was quickly growing out of control?

Are there any other kinds of theoretical "devices" similar to a black hole (Dangerous, can grow/change, could be created by accident) that I could use that would be slightly more plausible?

Thanks!
Well, you might be able to say that this black hole was moving through space and accidently got captured by earth and put into orbit or "crashes" into the planet, but I couldn't give you a good mass to use. That would determine how far from the black hole that objects get significently affected.
 
  • #8
Sanescience, what if it started as insignificant but was quickly growing out of control?

Are there any other kinds of theoretical "devices" similar to a black hole (Dangerous, can grow/change, could be created by accident) that I could use that would be slightly more plausible?

Thanks!
Nothing what-so-ever.

I know it sounds depressing, but that's the reality of it.

Now, it is sci-fi on the other hand and as I always tell people who come here relating to it - you can do what you like, just don't try to explain it...
Well, being a fan of "reasonably" believable science I don't think it is quite the right approach to not even try.

I sometimes pitch to be a consultant on technology in entertainment but here is a freebie...

Off the top of my head you might want something like Ice9.
 
  • #9
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Well, being a fan of "reasonably" believable science I don't think it is quite the right approach to not even try.

I sometimes pitch to be a consultant on technology in entertainment but here is a freebie...
Sci-fi that's reasonably believable? Limiting your options rather a lot aren't you?
 
  • #10
Drakkith
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Sci-fi that's reasonably believable? Limiting your options rather a lot aren't you?
Lol! Maybe, but it depends on the writer and how creative they are with the story!
 
  • #11
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Lol! Maybe, but it depends on the writer and how creative they are with the story!
Can be as creative as you like, to be "reasonably believable" it must have something about it that's true. Let's face it, for something like Star Trek the only thing in there reasonably believable is the automatic doors.

For me, as long as there's a good story and they don't go too deep into the tech (it just works) I'm happy.
 
  • #12
Drakkith
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Can be as creative as you like, to be "reasonably believable" it must have something about it that's true. Let's face it, for something like Star Trek the only thing in there reasonably believable is the automatic doors.

For me, as long as there's a good story and they don't go too deep into the tech (it just works) I'm happy.
I'm good as long as they don't try to contradict the known laws of science without a really good reason. (Like Iron Man inventing a new "Element" in Iron Man 2)
 
  • #13
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I'm good as long as they don't try to contradict the known laws of science without a really good reason. (Like Iron Man inventing a new "Element" in Iron Man 2)
I can handle minor breaches, but some stuff is just ridiculous and that kills it for me.
 
  • #14
Drakkith
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I can handle minor breaches, but some stuff is just ridiculous and that kills it for me.
Same. (And i thought that part in Iron Man 2 was rediculous. I almost laughed out loud in the theatre.)
 
  • #15
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hairyllama,

Wormholes are always popular, though the plausibility factor is out the window. Creating antimatter is very real and ongoing. Antimatter can be contained and is highly energetic when it comes in contact with "normal matter". You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

I don't know if you can work this into your story, but if you want "real science" there you have it :-)

Fish
 
  • #16
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Antimatter can be contained and is highly energetic when it comes in contact with "normal matter". You can read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

I don't know if you can work this into your story, but if you want "real science" there you have it :-)
See 'Angels and Demons' by Dan Brown.

EDIT: The book not the film.
 
  • #17
1. You would need the mass of at least 4 suns to create a black hole. Actually, when the black hole is first created, it probably would be very small like you describe. But once surrounding matter (in this case, our world) starts to fall in, the event horizon expands. So if you could contain the black hole, then you could have a small black hole sitting in your lab (note that because it is so dense, gigantic mass doesn't imply gigantic size). But of course getting 4 solar masses of matter and the stellar level of energy needed to compress it artificially...that could prove difficult.

2. A newly created black hole...I just don't know if that could really be contained. Because it's so small (and young), its tidal forces would be tremendous. It would begin ripping our world apart (and super heating it at its event horizon) very quickly. I think the surrounding world would quickly fall into a death spiral, and no advanced machinery could stop it. I've read that massive electromagnetic fields could be used (theoretically) to move black holes, but I just don't think they could stop a black hole from "feeding".

3. Verrrry theoretically...dump a massive amount of exotic matter (i.e., negative mass/energy) into it. Finding exotic matter might be difficult to say the least though.
 

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