Blackbody radiation and the Ultraviolet Catastrophe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the classical theory of blackbody radiation and the concept of the ultraviolet catastrophe, particularly in relation to how objects at room temperature, like a tennis ball, are predicted to emit radiation predominantly in the ultraviolet range. Participants explore the implications of classical models and the limitations that arise when applying these models to low-temperature objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant summarizes the classical blackbody theory, noting that it suggests objects like a tennis ball should emit radiation mainly in the ultraviolet region due to the higher number of modes available for higher frequency oscillators.
  • Another participant agrees that the classical theory leads to unphysical predictions, such as unlimited power radiated at higher frequencies, which does not align with experimental observations.
  • A participant questions how, under the classical view, a tennis ball could obtain the energy to radiate in the ultraviolet range at room temperature, despite the theory's predictions.
  • Discussion includes the acknowledgment that Lord Rayleigh's calculations for the blackbody spectrum were partially successful, working well for low frequencies but failing at high frequencies.
  • It is noted that while the Rayleigh calculation can be extended mathematically to higher frequencies, the assumptions behind it become implausible, leading to discrepancies with experimental results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a shared understanding of the limitations of classical blackbody theory, particularly regarding its predictions for high-frequency radiation. However, there is no consensus on how to reconcile these predictions with the behavior of low-temperature objects.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the classical model, such as the assumptions made about energy distribution among oscillators and the implications of temperature on radiation emission. There are unresolved questions about the energy sources for radiation at different frequencies.

Jimmy87
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Hi, please could someone help me as I am struggling to understand the classical blackbody theory. I will briefly summarize what my textbook says. It says that if the classical model was correct then a tennis ball should be emitting radiation in mainly the ultraviolet region. The idea at the time was that atoms in the blackbody were thought of as oscillators which could vibrate at any frequency. The higher frequency oscillations would have more modes thus more ways of storing energy and therefore one would expect to find most of the energy in the ultraviolet range for any object above absolute zero as this is where most of the modes are. What I am struggling to understand is how this classical theory applies to low temperature objects such as a tennis ball. Even if the atoms of a tennis ball do indeed have more modes for the higher frequency oscillators where would it get the energy from to fill these modes when its only at room temperature!? I can see the logic (even though its wrong) that increasing the temperature/intensity would increase the radiation emitted all the way up to infinity but how does this classical theory also mean that things at room temperate for example, should also emit in mainly the ultraviolet region? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
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Jimmy87 said:
Even if the atoms of a tennis ball do indeed have more modes for the higher frequency oscillators where would it get the energy from to fill these modes when its only at room temperature!?
Well sure, that's exactly the problem with the classical theory, isn't it?

Wikipedia said:
Thus, both the power at a given frequency and the total radiated power is unlimited as higher and higher frequencies are considered: this is clearly unphysical as the total radiated power of a cavity is not observed to be infinite,
 
Bill_K said:
Well sure, that's exactly the problem with the classical theory, isn't it?

Yes, but I'm saying that if we pretend the classical view was correct (and quantum mechanics didn't exist) where would a tennis ball get the energy from to radiate in the UV range as this is what the theory apparently predicted (Lord Rayleigh predicted this) but I don't see how. So even though its wrong I don't understand how Rayleigh predicted objects with room temperature should emit mostly in the UV range.
 
Rayleigh attempted to calculate the black body spectrum. The result he got was only partially successful. It worked for low frequencies and failed at high frequencies. He was well aware of this. He never pretended it was correct.
 
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where would it get the energy from to fill these modes when its only at room temperature!?

The Rayleigh calculation seems to give good result for intensity of low frequency component of the radiation. The energy corresponding to this radiation comes from the other objects used to heat the tennis ball up to its temperature.

If we attempt to extend the validity of the Rayleigh calculation to higher frequencies, mathematically we can, and the energy would again come from the surrounding objects. But what Bill is saying is right, for high frequencies the assumptions of the calculation are implausible and the result experimentally fails.
 
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Thanks for all your answers guys, that has helped
 

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