Is block time an inevitable consequence of relativity?

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of block time and its implications in relation to relativity, specifically the idea that events in our future may have already happened. The conversation also touches on alternative interpretations, including the idea of a multiverse, and the role of spacetime diagrams in professional physics. The main question posed is whether there are any other scientific explanations for the contradiction between the determinism of the future and the uncertainty of quantum mechanics.
  • #1
Gerinski
Hi, I posted this question in Astronomy & Cosmology but by advice of some users I post it here as it has some philosophycal side too:

It seems to me that block time is an unavoidable consequence of Relativity. The fact that events that still lie in our future must have already been observed by other (hypotetical) observers seems to leave no room for escaping the fact that (at least some of) the events in our future "have already happened".

To me (a layman) that seems to leave just 2 possibilities: either the future is already totally determined or we live in Everett's-Deutsch many-worlds multiverse.

Or are there any other alternative interpretations? I know about quantum undeterminacy, but I still don't really get how does it get along with the seemingly unavoidable reality of block time derived from Relativity theory.
 
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  • #2
Gerinski, I find your use of "Already" with future events an unsatisfactory representation of the block time idea. "Predetermined" would be better, because we can't define a timelike path (in special relativity) that visits those future events and time-orders them before our present, which is what "already" sems to mean.

Block time takes 4-d Minkowski spacetime seriously. Others would say it reifies a useful mathematical idea. Weinberg notably takes the position that spacetime is just a useful metaphor.

Spacetime diagrams which are used as "intuition pumps" for learners, do not play much part in the thinking of professional physicist. They work instead with the mathematics of the Lorentz transforms. These latter do mix time nad space, but on a case-by-case basis which may suggest the overall idea of spacetime but does not entail it.
 
  • #3
Thanks SelfAdjoint. I guess I get some of your point, but I admit it's just too bad I'm not trained in physics but just a humble afficionado, I wish I could look at the question from a more educated viewpoint! Just let me remake a bit the question as I did in a parallel thread in Cosmology, but please forgive me if I use an inappropiate layman language, I just hope you get my meaning.
And of course I don't mean to be right, I just express what my understanding is, expecting to get corrected wherever I'm wrong:

The fact that 2 events A and B may be perceived by one observer as A happening before B and for another observer as B happening before A is a scientifically accepted relativistic effect.
It seems therefore scientifically sound that events that still lie in our future may have "already" objectively happened (witnessed by other hypotetical observers), as we are not supposed to have any privileged status versus such other hypotetical observers. Past present and future are subjective labels (or time stamps) attached to objective events, and the sequence of the time stamps is not necessarily unique.

Until here it seems to me this is hard science and not yet into philosophy.
Quantum underterminism is also mainstream science.

I see Multiverse as a scientific theory finding a way out from the apparently contradictory solutions arising from our 2 most respected scientific theories to the scientifically legitimate question wether the future is determined or not.

My question is if there are any other scientific way outs to this contradiction.
Thanks again!
 
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1. What is block time interpretation?

Block time interpretation is a philosophical concept that suggests that time is a series of individual "blocks" or moments, rather than a continuous and flowing entity. This theory challenges the traditional view of time as a linear progression.

2. How does block time interpretation differ from other theories of time?

Block time interpretation differs from other theories of time, such as the "presentism" and "eternalism" theories, in that it does not view the past, present, and future as distinct and separate entities. Instead, all moments in time are seen as equally real and existing simultaneously.

3. What is the scientific evidence for block time interpretation?

Block time interpretation is a philosophical concept and does not have direct scientific evidence to support it. However, the theory is often used in discussions about the nature of time in physics and cosmology, and some physicists argue that it aligns with the theory of relativity and the concept of spacetime.

4. Are there any notable scientists who support block time interpretation?

There are several notable scientists who have explored and supported block time interpretation, including Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Julian Barbour. However, it is important to note that there is still much debate and discussion among scientists about the nature of time and the validity of different theories.

5. How does block time interpretation impact our understanding of the universe?

Block time interpretation challenges our common sense understanding of time and raises questions about the nature of causality and free will. It also has implications for our understanding of the concept of reality and the role of consciousness in perceiving time. Overall, it prompts us to think more deeply about the fundamental nature of the universe and our place within it.

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