News Bombs in London

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Art

London is now the latest victim of what appears to be suicide bombers.
 
Any idea who the terrorists were or why the attacks happened?
There was a terrorist attack in india a couple of days ago
 

Art

physics4ever said:
Any idea who the terrorists were or why the attacks happened?
There was a terrorist attack in india a couple of days ago
Very few facts available yet though it seems there were at least 6 separate blasts (3 on busses and 3 on tube trains) timed to coincide with the start of the G8 summit. There are fatalities but no indication at all yet of how many. Eyewitnesses say the busses were packed so it doesn't look good.
What happened in India. I haven't heard of that attack over here.
 

siddharth

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physics4ever said:
Any idea who the terrorists were or why the attacks happened?
There was a terrorist attack in india a couple of days ago
Yes, but not of this magnitutde. The initial suspects appear to be Al-Qaeda. BBC says there are a number casualties and that the Underground and buses were attacked.
 
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CNN says at least two people are dead

marlon
 

Art

From Sky News
GROUP CLAIMS ATTACKS

A terror group linked to al Qaeda has claimed it carried out a series of terror attacks on London that have left a number of people dead and hundreds injured.


Two London hospital have reported a total of 185 wounded after a series of blasts hit locations across the city on buses and Tube stations.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said there was evidence of explosives at at least one of the six sites.

Scotland Yard has denied reports they were warned of an attack by Israel minutes before the blasts.

Two people have been confirmed dead and at least 90 people injured in the explosion at Aldgate Station
 
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Tony Blair says he will skip the G8 to go and be in London.
 
Yep, he's out of there. Latest is six confirmed dead, 9 suspected. I imagine those figures are going up a fair bit. There are still people trapped in the underground.
 
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Attacking the transit, just reeks of Madrid.
May I add, that the London emergency crews are really doing a great job. Their practise, has paid off. What a nightmare, for such a fine city.
 

Astronuc

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Art said:
London is now the latest victim of what appears to be suicide bombers.
It's not clear that it is suicide bombers. Possibly, it is the result of bombs planted, as in Madrid. This is irrelevant at the moment - the net effect is the same regardless - innocent people have been killed or injured. :cry:
 

alexandra

I don't really know how to say this - I just want to express my empathy with people living through these terrible events. This act demonstrates the futility of senseless, ill-informed acts of sectarian violence and the damage that can result from such actions.

It is obvious that whichever group is responsible is acting on the basis of a flawed analysis: how can such acts possibly achieve their aims? All this violence is likely to achieve is to alienate ordinary British people and to result in tighter security regulations (that will impinge on domestic rights to privacy even further). Targetting civilians in politically motivated action is counter-productive (whatever the position of their country's leaders on this issue) - but an awareness of this fact depends on an in-depth knowledge of who/what 'the enemy' is (certainly not ordinary people) and a logical analysis of what action is required to change things.

This is precisely why it is important to study a situation and analyse it fully before taking any action.
 
alexandra said:
It is obvious that whichever group is responsible is acting on the basis of a flawed analysis: how can such acts possibly achieve their aims?
I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, their aims are to cause terror and death, and they have achieved it.
 
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El Hombre Invisible said:
I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, their aims are to cause terror and death, and they have achieved it.
echo........
 

alexandra

El Hombre Invisible said:
I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, their aims are to cause terror and death, and they have achieved it.
You're probably right, El Hombre - perhaps it's 'revenge' motivated. If their aim was to further the cause of justice and to bring about real change, it would have been ill-conceived. Again, though, this is an indication to me that they have not thought things through properly. Revenge is not something one should be aiming for - change is.
 
El Hombre Invisible said:
I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, their aims are to cause terror and death, and they have achieved it.
Yes, but this approach will be seen as ineffective in the end. It will only lend credibility to the argument that Islamic fundamentalism cannot be reasoned with - it will result in the hammer being dropped on the fundamentalists with even more fury. Eventually global sympathy for the Islamic fundamentalists will turn into disgust, as in the case of the Chechnyan terrorists bombing that Russian school.
 

alexandra

quetzalcoatl9 said:
Yes, but this approach will be seen as ineffective in the end. It will only lend credibility to the argument that Islamic fundamentalism cannot be reasoned with - it will result in the hammer being dropped on the fundamentalists with even more fury. Eventually global sympathy for the Islamic fundamentalists will turn into disgust, as in the case of the Chechnyan terrorists bombing that Russian school.
Yes, q - this is exactly what I meant. Thanks for elaborating...
 

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alexandra said:
This act demonstrates the futility of senseless, ill-informed acts of sectarian violence and the damage that can result from such actions.
Yes, indeed!

alexandra said:
It is obvious that whichever group is responsible is acting on the basis of a flawed analysis: how can such acts possibly achieve their aims? All this violence is likely to achieve is to alienate ordinary British people and to result in tighter security regulations (that will impinge on domestic rights to privacy even further). Targetting civilians in politically motivated action is counter-productive (whatever the position of their country's leaders on this issue) - but an awareness of this fact depends on an in-depth knowledge of who/what 'the enemy' is (certainly not ordinary people) and a logical analysis of what action is required to change things.

This is precisely why it is important to study a situation and analyse it fully before taking any action.
A very rational analysis indeed. However, terrorists are not rational. They are blinded by hatred.

Unfortunately for most, a rational discussion is not feasible at the moment given the raw emotions being experienced.
 
alexandra said:
Yes, q - this is exactly what I meant. Thanks for elaborating...
then we agree on at least one thing :smile:
 
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Their stated intent (if the group claiming responsibility is legitimately responsible) was to have troops withdrawn from Iraq.

They claimed they warned london to withdraw troops, and that therefore God forgives their actions.

They threaten that they are warning 2 other countries also.

I completely agree with Alexandra - this action will not inspire the removal of troops from Iraq.
 

Art

quetzalcoatl9 said:
Yes, but this approach will be seen as ineffective in the end. It will only lend credibility to the argument that Islamic fundamentalism cannot be reasoned with - it will result in the hammer being dropped on the fundamentalists with even more fury. Eventually global sympathy for the Islamic fundamentalists will turn into disgust, as in the case of the Chechnyan terrorists bombing that Russian school.
You are undoubtedly correct in so far as the western world's view of radical Islam will become even more hardened but the fundamentalists are not trying to win their support anyway.
The only way ultimately to stop this kind of endless slaughter is to remove their reasons for being and remove the support these fanatics hold within the muslim communities / countries.
It is a terrific victory for these extremists if they can provoke the western powers into a massive retaliatory strike as invariably this results in the deaths and suffering of moderate muslims too. This in turn lends justification to the next attrocity they commit, provides new recruits and moves the moderate bloc of muslims further away from the western world and delivers them into the hands of the extremists.
 
pattylou said:
Their stated intent (if the group claiming responsibility is legitimately responsible) was to have troops withdrawn from Iraq.

They claimed they warned london to withdraw troops, and that therefore God forgives their actions.

They threaten that they are warning 2 other countries also.

I completely agree with Alexandra - this action will not inspire the removal of troops from Iraq.
You might be right, though I think the motive is to punish, not to offer an ultimatum. In fact, I get the impression this is the end result of earlier ultimata: "We have repeatedly warned the British Government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid."
 

siddharth

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Art said:
You are undoubtedly correct in so far as the western world's view of radical Islam will become even more hardened but the fundamentalists are not trying to win their support anyway.


It is a terrific victory for these extremists if they can provoke the western powers into a massive retaliatory strike as invariably this results in the deaths and suffering of moderate muslims too. This in turn lends justification to the next attrocity they commit, provides new recruits and moves the moderate bloc of muslims further away from the western world and delivers them into the hands of the extremists.
My thoughts exactly!
In my opinion, it is going to be impossible to win such a war against terror ONLY using strong retaliatory strikes. This would only enable the terrorists to gain more recruits. What should be done at a fundamental level is to provide a science oriented education. The reason that most extremists commit these terrible acts is because they really believe what they do is right. Once you teach people to question things, like how we do in science, then they will start questioning their irrational beliefs. Once that happens they are very much less likely to blow up innocent civilians over some idea they know might be wrong.
Of course, whatever I have said above maybe totally inaccurate, but I just thought that I should share my views.
 
siddharth said:
My thoughts exactly!
In my opinion, it is going to be impossible to win such a war against terror ONLY using strong retaliatory strikes. This would only enable the terrorists to gain more recruits. What should be done at a fundamental level is to provide a science oriented education. The reason that most extremists commit these terrible acts is because they really believe what they do is right. Once you teach people to question things, like how we do in science, then they will start questioning their irrational beliefs. Once that happens they are very much less likely to blow up innocent civilians over some idea they know might be wrong.
Of course, whatever I have said above maybe totally inaccurate, but I just thought that I should share my views.
i disagree.

"educating" them will not stop terrorism. infact, most of the terrorist are quite skilled in science and engineering. blowing up a bridge, or something like 9/11, doesn't take place without significant engineering analysis.
 
Art said:
You are undoubtedly correct in so far as the western world's view of radical Islam will become even more hardened but the fundamentalists are not trying to win their support anyway.
The only way ultimately to stop this kind of endless slaughter is to remove their reasons for being and remove the support these fanatics hold within the muslim communities / countries.
It is a terrific victory for these extremists if they can provoke the western powers into a massive retaliatory strike as invariably this results in the deaths and suffering of moderate muslims too. This in turn lends justification to the next attrocity they commit, provides new recruits and moves the moderate bloc of muslims further away from the western world and delivers them into the hands of the extremists.
Perhaps...or perhaps they may wake up and realize that their countries are living in the dark ages because of Islamic furvor. The Arab world lived in something of a Golden Age, much like ancient Greece or the classical Maya, until aggressive Islamic fundamentalism took over.

The reformation of christianity in Europe allowed enlightened thinking and human reasoning to take hold. If Islam were to reform itself, perhaps the same would happen with them.

If the Islamic states are weak, and are being exploited by the mighty powers of the world, it is because they let themselves fall into a position of weakness.
 

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