What Caused the Recent Bombings in London?

[kat]

He is on earth, and his location says "Palestine" which I would suggest is slightly closer to ME problems, than maine :-)

Well, then he's either lying or woefully misinformed when he states "they stop attacking Israel since more than 6 months"

Thats not the point

Uh..I wanted his opinion, no point to be made in my question.

Do you think that something as unjust as this would be allowed to happen anywhere else in the world?

Oh...yeah...and far worse..right now, today. But while we're on the subject..why don't you tell me how many refugees from numerous other countries who were displaced during the same time period were allowed to return to their own land/homes? And then...why don't you tell me how many jews who were displaced during the same time were allowed to return to their homes/land? and then why don't you tell me what happened to them (the Jews and others). and why they aren't still held under "refugee status"?

I beg to differ http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0503-03.htm

Isreali troops have as much of a lack of respect for life as Al-queda.. does!

BZZZZ, try again. I don't do propaganda sites.

 

[Burnsys]

BZZZZ, try again. I don't do propaganda sites.

Again typical strategy of attacking the source and not it contents, like if saying: "That site is a liberal one" and that would refute all the contents in the article...

Next Try:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q="James+Miller"+Gaza+

 

[The Smoking Man]

BZZZZ, try again. I don't do propaganda sites.

Funny, I followed the link and waiting at the end was an unadulterated article from AFP with pictures 'n all for the slow of mind.

I guess if Fox News carries an AFP piece, they are a 'propaganda site' too?

 

[The Smoking Man]

Do you think that something as unjust as this would be allowed to happen anywhere else in the world?



I beg to differ http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0503-03.htm

Isreali troops have as much of a lack of respect for life as Al-queda.. does!

An interesting note about the rest of the world and if it would be tollerated ...

On March 16, a 23-year-old peace activist from the United States was crushed to death by an Israeli bulldozer in the Gaza Strip as she was acting as a human shield to prevent the demolition of a Palestinian house.

The Israeli daily Haaretz reported Friday that authorities are considering expelling foreign peace activists acting as human shields.

Top Israeli brass and foreign ministry officials met this week to discuss the means of expelling the activists, the newspaper reported.

A foreign ministry spokesman confirmed that meetings had been held but said no decision had yet been reached.

"We discussed the issue of these so-called pacifists, who are in closed military zones where they are not allowed and are putting their own lives at risk," the spokesman told AFP.

When this happened in Tiananmen (person crushed under the tracks of a heavy vehicle), the world was up in arms and each year on the aniversary of Tiananmen, the images are replayed.

This shows the importance of unhindered media coverage in an area.

It also shows that the free world is more convinced by sound bytes than the occurance of events themselves.

Talk about a beheading and nothing is done ... show it on TV and you get results.

Now those of you who supported the 'censorship' or 'direction' or 'embedding' of media WITH troops with permit, please explain again why we can't have a free media in a war zone?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It is also a historical fact that the Muslims were able to amass large forces through forced conversion of the people they conquered, thus developing a large enough force to (unexpectedly) invade and conquer Byzantium.

That's interesting. Do you have a source at all? From what I have read Muslims were known to usually allow the people of the areas they "absorbed" to continue their own religious practices.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Also, in regards to buddhists, I know that they aren't all honey and creme. It is though the popular perception that buddhists are peaceful. I meant it as a contrast to the popular perception of muslims as being violent. There are buddhists that are militant and there are muslim sects that are peaceful.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Also, in regards to buddhists, I know that they aren't all honey and creme. It is though the popular perception that buddhists are peaceful. I meant it as a contrast to the popular perception of muslims as being violent. There are buddhists that are militant and there are muslim sects that are peaceful.

Case in point:

Regardless of what you think about the Chinese being in Tibet ...

In 1959, the Dalai Lama put guns into the hands of his followers and said, "Shoot".

I kind of have trouble with that idea knowing the rules of the 8 fold path ... which you can read in any of his books.

He also sold the same book to two different publishers earlier this year after having received advances from them.

Apparently, all is not peaceful in Buddhaville.

The Japanese were also half Buddhist and half Shinto... Not what I'd call a peaceful lifestyle. More like 'selective moralities'.

 

[Mercator]

Another PIC : the Japanese prefer a peaceful lifestyle in a radiaoactive environment.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Another PIC : the Japanese prefer a peaceful lifestyle in a radiaoactive environment.

Or as a Haiku:

Japanese prefer peaceful lifestyle
radiaoactive environment

 

[Art]

Police seem to be pretty certain now all 4 bombers died in their own explosions.

ALL FOUR BOMBERS DIED

All four suspected bombers died during the London terror attacks, according to police sources.


Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt said three bombers died in separate Tube attacks and one was killed in the No 30 bus blast.

Detectives believe all four were British citizens, Brunt said.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13385127,00.html

 

[Spin_Network]

Police seem to be pretty certain now all 4 bombers died in their own explosions.




http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13385127,00.html

Latest thoughts are that the 'Train-Terrorists', were murdered by the 'Bus-Bomber'. The Bus-Bomber came from the north of England, and was actually reported missing on the morning of the bombings, it is now pretty evident that this man(bus-bomber) set the mobile phone alarms, as a detonating factor.

All four terrorists were in one location in order for the devises to be primed, thus there was one person responcible for setting the activation devise(mobile phone alarm), this is why the 'first three' bombs detonated within a few seconds of each other, one man setting mobile alarms accumilates a 'Time-Lapse' of a few seconds, each alarm needs individual attention.

Thus departing from a single location, the Bus-Bomber MAY have told the individual bombers that their bombs were set, with respect to them being able to leave the location in sufficient time, to escape the blasts.

Having caught the No-30 Bus, he was actually in the process of setting the alarm on the Bomb/s he was preparing, when an 'incoming-call' (maybe from a distant relative worried about his wherabouts (first bombs were by now on TV?) ..actually either panicked him, or actually detonated the devises.

Quite Ironic don't you think!

 

[Mercator]

Maybe they were just bombs exploding without need for conspiracy theories.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Well people have been warning about the dangers of mobile phones for years. Perhaps now people will listen.

So what now for the war on terror? Are we going to demand Leeds' Muslim community hands over the ring-leader, announce that they are with us or against us, then bomb them out of West Yorkshire? Or does that only work when the country is safely outside Europe?

Bit of a predicament. I hadn't thought much more on this than I thought about the IRA, but this is so different. The IRA were, at least, in Ireland - another country. These are British nationals killing British people, most likely in protest against the British government. Why didn't they just kill themselves (I mean, I know they did, but why not JUST themselves) if that was their plan? Why kill innocents? It's one thing if you're wanting to terrorise a whole other country... clearly mass suicide would not have the desired effect on the government in question, but in your own country...?

And of course this is religion, not nationality. How do you stop the millions of people already living in your country from planting bombs in the name of Islam?

And are the American government, committed as they are to the war on terror, going to help us, or are we going to start seeing reluctance to waste their time when there's not really anything in it for them... no oil, gas, etc? Do we want their help?

Will ID cards help? Could this have been orchestrated by David Blunkett prior to his resignation to convince the nation that paying £50 (now, what? - £100?) for a Cat (Card Against Terrorism) is actually pretty reasonable? He was mad, after all.

Will the BNP gain in popularity due to this... will Great Britain edge closer to white supremacy?

So many questions. Too many really. I should delete a few.

 

[Art]

Will the BNP gain in popularity due to this... will Great Britain edge closer to white supremacy?

Seems like the BNP's motto is 'Make hay while the sun shines'

BNP DEFENDS LEAFLET

The British National Party has been condemned for using a photograph of the bombed Number 30 bus on a leaflet for an upcoming by-election.

The picture is on the cover of a leaflet printed for Thursday's council by-election in Barking, east London.


The leaflet also features the slogan: "Maybe now it's time to start listening to the BNP."

The leader of the Conservatives in London, Bob Neill, called it "disgraceful and sick".

He said: "It's as contemptible an election tactic as I have ever seen in my life."

 

[Spin_Network]

Seems like the BNP's motto is 'Make hay while the sun shines'

This is quite sick!

In the UK the newspaper The Sun , on Sat 9th July, page 5, had a picture of the said Bus, headline read:30 Seconds after blast, showing amongst the carnage, the Bus Driver staggering away in confusion. The photograph, was horrific in its graphic detail, this photo also shows the Head of an innocent victim,(this victim I believe is one of the two persons confirmed dead this evening in the UK) hanging out over the side, at the blown out back of the destroyed bus.

It was this photo that actually made me post to the original poster of this thread. It may be that, others who see this photo, will not have the same view's that I felt, and that is that families of the victims, from all walks of life and beliefs, have to see the image of their loved one's, in so graphic and horrific detail?

My heart goes out to Parents..Brothers.. Sisters of those innocent victims, I cannot bare to think, if one of my most cherished and loved ones were amongst those murdered.

 

[The Smoking Man]

This is quite sick!

In the UK the newspaper The Sun , on Sat 9th July, page 5, had a picture of the said Bus, headline read:30 Seconds after blast, showing amongst the carnage, the Bus Driver staggering away in confusion. The photograph, was horrific in its graphic detail, this photo also shows the Head of an innocent victim,(this victim I believe is one of the two persons confirmed dead this evening in the UK) hanging out over the side, at the blown out back of the destroyed bus.

It was this photo that actually made me post to the original poster of this thread. It may be that, others who see this photo, will not have the same view's that I felt, and that is that families of the victims, from all walks of life and beliefs, have to see the image of their loved one's, in so graphic and horrific detail?

My heart goes out to Parents..Brothers.. Sisters of those innocent victims, I cannot bare to think, if one of my most cherished and loved ones were amongst those murdered.

Question: This is a regular occurance in many parts of the world.

Pictures like this are often shown on foreign news services like al Jazeera.

Why are you so concerned now?

 

[Bilal]

It is horrible attack in London. Unfortunately it is normal day in Iraq!

 

[ron damon]

You know, Left-wing terrorists in Colombia use a tactic where they tell the bomb-planters that the bombs are on a timer, and that they will go off only after allowing sufficient time for them to escape, when in fact the bombs are set to go off immediately, killing the planters and so leaving no human links.

 

[Spin_Network]

Question: This is a regular occurance in many parts of the world.

Pictures like this are often shown on foreign news services like al Jazeera.

Why are you so concerned now?

Firstly I have no access to Al Jazeera, why should I be concerned, are Al Jazeera Concerned about 'my' every day life shedule?

Secondly, this was a regular occurence in the UK at one point in time, but for a different cause, makes no difference, its a sad moment here and now, as it would be anywhere else on the Earth?

 

[The Smoking Man]

Firstly I have no access to Al Jazeera, why should I be concerned, are Al Jazeera Concerned about 'my' every day life shedule?

You do have access to http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E4D19123-9DD3-11D1-B44E-006097071264.htm helps fight skin cancer.

Secondly, this was a regular occurence in the UK at one point in time, but for a different cause, makes no difference, its a sad moment here and now, as it would be anywhere else on the Earth?

Then I think you have just given the answer as to why many of these groups move their attacks to the venue they will be assured they will be seen by you.

The very fact that we open topics on boards like this and discuss the result and motivations gives them reason to do so when we fail to discuss the attrocities when it happens in their own countries.

Regardless of the source of these bombings, I am sure that the perpetrators believe that the governments of England (and the USA) are partially responsible for their plight and they have hit out at the people who they believe to have put them into power.

 

[Daminc]

The bombers are misguided fools.

Intellectually and strategically I can understand the attacks. I can even raise a certain amount of respect for this enemy knocking on our front door but it's hard to understand what they are trying to achieve with these actions.

The IRA had a specific agenda which I could understand (except when they targeted civilians) however when there actions crossed an invisible line the SAS were given a STK policy that disregarded all territorial boundaries. It was only when the policy was made public with the Gibraltar incident that the 'people' went 'hang on, you can't go around killing people like that'. That was the beginning of the end of the IRA as we knew it. They then knew if they crossed the line again they would all die without exception.

Britain can be seen as a tolerant, multi-cultural society, but we have been at war somewhere on this planet almost continually for the last 1000 years and we're pretty damn good at it.

This bombing may be the the trigger to reactivate the STK policy and I expect there will be less opposition to it this time. Imagine it, first Britain would be cleared up with people dissappearing left, right and center. Then it would expand through Europe and beyond without a single government having a say about it.

Yes, the government may use this incident to push the ID-cards through and many civil liberties may go out the window but I don't think that the 'enemy' knows just what we brits are capable of.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

The bombers are misguided fools.

Intellectually and strategically I can understand the attacks. I can even raise a certain amount of respect for this enemy knocking on our front door but it's hard to understand what they are trying to achieve with these actions.

The IRA had a specific agenda which I could understand (except when they targeted civilians) however when there actions crossed an invisible line the SAS were given a STK policy that disregarded all territorial boundaries. It was only when the policy was made public with the Gibraltar incident that the 'people' went 'hang on, you can't go around killing people like that'. That was the beginning of the end of the IRA as we knew it. They then knew if they crossed the line again they would all die without exception.

Britain can be seen as a tolerant, multi-cultural society, but we have been at war somewhere on this planet almost continually for the last 1000 years and we're pretty damn good at it.

This bombing may be the the trigger to reactivate the STK policy and I expect there will be less opposition to it this time. Imagine it, first Britain would be cleared up with people dissappearing left, right and center. Then it would expand through Europe and beyond without a single government having a say about it.

Yes, the government may use this incident to push the ID-cards through and many civil liberties may go out the window but I don't think that the 'enemy' knows just what we brits are capable of.

Bad fish and chips?

 

[Daminc]

Bad fish and chips?

NEVER.
How could you say such a thing about our national dish. We couldn't make bad fish and chips even if we tried (in which case we'd probably get done for treason )

Mmmm, fish and chips :!)

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Dammit, now I'm hungry. And this weather is just about right for eating something when you don't want to know what's in it. Okay, you sold me. I take it back.

 

[siddharth]

How could you say such a thing about our national dish
...
Mmmm, fish and chips :!)

I thought that the national dish in UK is now
Chicken Tikka Masala

 

[Spin_Network]

I thought that the national dish in UK is now
Chicken Tikka Masala

I think you are correct here, everybody I knows loves this dish, none more than myself .

 

[Anttech]

The IRA had a specific agenda which I could understand

From what I understand the agenda of Al-queda is for the "West" to remove itself from ME and stop meddeling in their afairs. I think a big step in remove these fundamentalist would be for Israel to retreat out of Palistine areas and for the US to stop supporting them, it is seen as totally two faced in the Arab nations.. I can understand this. But I don't condon Terror attacks, but we are at War right now, so it was to be expected, right?

Britain can be seen as a tolerant, multi-cultural society, but we have been at war somewhere on this planet almost continually for the last 1000 years and we're pretty damn good at it.

I aggee I would not like to be on a SAS hit list. The SAS are very good at combating Terrorism, and are sneeky as hell... Quietly "removing" key people in terrorist organisations, and we normal civies will know nothing about it...

 

[Daminc]

Maybe it's the case of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'?

Many of the 'insurgents' have a ligitmate claim against Britain and America for invading their country (I won't insult them by using the word 'liberation' as there have been too many civilian casulties). The stratagy they are using is exactly the same one we would use if we were facing a force of superior numbers. It's also the same one our special forces use to disrupt enemy logistics etc.

The trouble is 'other' groups, that are maybe fanatically religious oriented, brainwashed, jealous, vengence for a past invasion, political idologies etc, may join them because America has now presented them with an easy target. 100,000+ troops, many of which are ill-disciplined and inadequately trained/experienced for such a war, all in what Sun-Tzu calls the 'Death Ground'.

p.s. Chicken Tikka Masala is ok but it doesn't come close to touching a decent portion of fish and chips

 

[Anttech]

p.s. Chicken Tikka Masala is ok but it doesn't come close to touching a decent portion of fish and chips

true, but vindaloo kicks fish and chips ass, but nothing beat a good donner chips n cheese after a night out :rofl:

 

[Daminc]

but vindaloo kicks fish and chips ass, but nothing beat a good donner chips n cheese after a night out

You're sick mister :(

 

[Anttech]

You're sick mister :(

not at all, just like spicey food ;-)

 

[stoned]

we in europe suppose to pay 2 minutes of silence at noon time as a respect to all victims of london bombings, i almost did so but then i said to myself if we paid even one second of respect to the hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded iraqi people i would not do so. never.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

From what I understand the agenda of Al-queda is for the "West" to remove itself from ME and stop meddeling in their afairs. I think a big step in remove these fundamentalist would be for Israel to retreat out of Palistine areas and for the US to stop supporting them, it is seen as totally two faced in the Arab nations.. I can understand this. But I don't condon Terror attacks, but we are at War right now, so it was to be expected, right?

I think you have to draw a line between politically-motivated criminals such as Bin Laden (or the IRA for that matter) and religiously-motivated cult-like groups that were probably responsible for London attack. For the latter, Western involvement in the Middle East and the Iraq war in particular are an excuse , not a reason. Sure, with no such excuses we might not have seen such attrocities, but nevertheless I don't think we're looking at politically-minded people here. The cause of Al-Qaeda has attracted many self-sufficient cells, all no doubt led by opportunistic extremists, and the methods of Al-Qaeda are an education for how these cells should work. It would be foolish to believe that these people share the same motives. I'd look more to the East and certain other groups targetting certain other subway systems for an idea of the kind of mentality and motives these people have, and the methods of recruitment that result in British citizens murdering other British citizens.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

we in europe suppose to pay 2 minutes at noon time of respect to all victims of london bombings, i almost did so but then i said to myself if we paid even one second of respect to the hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded iraqi people i would not do so. never.

I dig your point. The 2 minute silence for this seems even more focussed than that for the victims of the tsunami. It is hypocritical that if a load of people die in North America or Europe we are expected to 'meditate' on it, and yet thousands of people die or are severly ill each year in Vietnam due to agent orange poisoning. However, I don't think the lack of organisation of such tragedies the world over warrants not paying my respects as fully as possible in these cases. I just accept that I must pay my respects for those people society does not deem worthy of it on my own, and whenever and however I see fit.

 

[Anttech]

El Hombre Invisible, I see your point... Yet these people wouldn't do these things if our politics towards ME changed, would they? Perhaps you would have total nutters that will insist on killing people in the name of islam, but the sain sympathiser would not encourage this behavour (terrorism) and just like in Ireland the Terrorism would be force to stop, by lack of funding etc