Bowe Bergdahl Released: Taliban Exchange in Historic Deal

[lisab]

After being held for five years, Bowe Bergdahl has been released by the Taliban:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/01/us-soldier-afghanistan-release-idUSKBN0EB0M320140601


He was released in exchange for five Taliban detainees who had been held in Guantanamo.

As stated in the article, there is some controversy about his release, since it required negotiating with the Taliban. I have mixed feelings about that, but I think it signals the Taliban are a much lower threat than they used to be.

It will be a tough transition for him. One report I read said he was having trouble speaking English! In any case: Welcome home, Bowe!

 

[nsaspook]

Welcome home bro.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Great news! Hope he writes a book, I'd read it!

 

[Nick O]

I hope he and his family receive plenty of counselling. I've heard too many stories of families not recognizing signs of suicide when soldiers (in the generic sense, no offence to men and women of branches other than the Army) return. His situation sounds like one that could lead to serious depression.

 

[mheslep]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/01/us-soldier-afghanistan-release-idUSKBN0EB0M320140601

Yes, mixed feelings. This is not the end of WWII. Obama has the authority to order all troops home but he does not have the authority to end the war or stop the Taliban from fighting. Some other soldiers were likely put in harms way capturing those 5 Taliban, and unlike WWII, Korea, there's no capitulation here from the Taliban indicating those 5 Taliban leaders won't go on to attack, say, some US embassy.

That Reuters article also states:

Many U.S. government officials believe Bergdahl was seized after walking away from his unit in violation of U.S. military regulations.

If that's true, then more soldiers were likely put in harms way looking for him.

There also seems to be 30-day notification of Congress law for releasing Gitmo prisoners that was ignored.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Questions swirl after Bowe Bergdahl's release
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/02/us/bowe-bergdahl-questions/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[Evo]

So, possible disertion?

What are the soldiers who served with him saying?

Bluntly, they resent any talk of Bergdahl as a hero. They say he's a deserter who should be put on trial, especially in light of the deaths of at least six U.S. soldiers killed while looking for him.
"I was pissed off then and I am even more so now with everything going on," said Matt Vierkant, who was in the same platoon as Bergdahl. "Bowe Bergdahl deserted during a time of war and his fellow Americans lost their lives searching for him."

"I don't understand why we're trading prisoners at Gitmo for somebody who deserted during a time of war, which is an act of treason," Vierkant said.

Are they right? Was he a deserter?

U.S. officials aren't saying that, at least not directly. When asked about the issue Sunday, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel sidestepped the question. "Our first priority is assuring his well-being and his health and getting him reunited with his family," Hagel said. "Other circumstances that may develop and questions, those will be dealt with later."

From Greg's CNN link.

More http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/index.html

 

[nsaspook]

If he deserted under fire and directly got people killed as a result then he should stand trial for extra punishment but if he bugged out late one night, got captured by being stupid and people died searching for him later, the 5 years and a dishonorable discharge is sufficient IMO.

Unless Bowe Bergdahl voluntarily joined the Taliban to fight the US it's time to let him go home to get his head straight.

 

[SixNein]

So, possible disertion?

From Greg's CNN link.

More http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/index.html

I think it's mostly political to be honest. In addition, desertion is extremely hard to prove. We don't even know if he was AWOL.

 

[mheslep]

If he deserted under fire and directly got people killed as a result then he should stand trial for extra punishment but if he bugged out late one night, got captured by being stupid and people died searching for him later, the 5 years and a dishonorable discharge is sufficient IMO.

Unless Bowe Bergdahl voluntarily joined the Taliban to fight the US it's time to let him go home to get his head straight.

Agreed, exactly so until the 5 Taliban leaders are factored in, which I don't know how weigh. If these 5 are likely to make baskets, fine, enough three meals a day on Uncle Sam. If they are likely to make plans for dirty bombs or crashing planes into buildings ...

 

[nsaspook]

Agreed, exactly so until the 5 Taliban leaders are factored in, which I don't know how weigh. If these 5 are likely to make baskets, fine, enough three meals a day on Uncle Sam. If they are likely to make plans for dirty bombs or crashing planes into buildings ...

There were plenty of people capable of terrorist plans and acts on the loose before these five were released and I wouldn't trust them with a firecracker if I was the Taliban after their many years of 'training'.

 

[edward]

Agreed, exactly so until the 5 Taliban leaders are factored in, which I don't know how weigh. If these 5 are likely to make baskets, fine, enough three meals a day on Uncle Sam. If they are likely to make plans for dirty bombs or crashing planes into buildings ...

I am hearing a lot of statements like that. The five were Taliban enemy combatants. That would be the same group that we helped to drive Russia out of Afghanistan. Just when did Taliban become confused with Al Qaeda??

The description of the five as being dangerous Taliban confuses me. I thought that all Taliban were dangerous. The five did have leadership positions.

Ironically the current information on the five was determined in 2008 by someone at gitmo and news agencies are using wikileaks info.

The most detailed assessment comes from once-secret U.S. government documents made public by Wikileaks. The key documents, written in 2008, were individualized assessments by the Defense Department’s Guantanamo leadership. The documents, which provide most of the direct quotes in the five capsules below, give background and risk assessments of each of the five detainees being freed.

According to the documents, all five men were deemed to be of "high" risk to the United States and were recommended for "continued detention."

Bold mine.

Is the 2008 Guantanamo leadership (whatever that is) version of danger from the five the same as the current Guantanamo commanders version?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ccain-says-five-taliban-detainees-freed-bowe/

I see a lot of political hype here. The five were all captured during the 2001 2002 time frame. Do they still hold their dangerous leadership positions? Will they be able to execute their previous leadership from Qatar?

http://time.com/2803988/guantanamo-detainees-bergdahl/

 

[russ_watters]

Just when did Taliban become confused with Al Qaeda??

I don't know if anyone confuses the Taliban with Al Qaeda; the Taliban is just allied with/supporting of Al Qaeda.

The five were all captured during the 2001 2002 time frame. Do they still hold their dangerous leadership positions?

The would not be the first to leave 'Gitmo to return to the fight.

Will they be able to execute their previous leadership from Qatar?

Maybe, but only for a year, until they are allowed to leave -- less if Qatar doesn't do a good job of keeping tabs on them.

 

[OmCheeto]

Just spent the last 5 hours reading about Bowe, from many sources.

He spent time in a Buddhist monastery between 2007 and 2008.
...
Bergdahl graduated from infantry school in Fort Benning, Georgia in late 2008.

A Buddhist joining the Army?

Um, Army, to quote Paul McCartney, "that was your first mistake".

-------

Welcome home Bowe,

I will buy you a sailboat, when you're ready.



Cathy

 

[Chronos]

Pretty hard to sort the wheat from the chaff on this one. Some stories suggest he wandered out into the desert after his shift - which sounds like a death wish. It's not like there was a nightclub down the street. According to the Washington Post, he stumbled past a local village appearing stoned and on into the mountains, despite warnings from locals. Aside from abject stupidity, he probably deserves to be charged with dereliction of duty, if not desertion. The prisoner exchange was a plain awful idea that puts americans abroad at risk, IMO. I could perhaps see a straight up exchange for a minor Taliban functionary, but, five reportedly senior Taliban officials is a pretty lopsided deal for one obscure, disoriented nco. If these stories are true, the tragic part is the soldiers who were wounded or killed trying to find this guy. I'm fairly confident the guys we released will be giving interviews on Al Jazeera the minute they step off the plane and vanish shortly afterwards.

 

[edward]

Pretty hard to sort the wheat from the chaff on this one. Some stories suggest he wandered out into the desert after his shift - which sounds like a death wish. It's not like there was a nightclub down the street. According to the Washington Post, he stumbled past a local village appearing stoned and on into the mountains, despite warnings from locals. Aside from abject stupidity, he probably deserves to be charged with dereliction of duty, if not desertion. The prisoner exchange was a plain awful idea that puts americans abroad at risk, IMO. I could perhaps see a straight up exchange for a minor Taliban functionary, but, five reportedly senior Taliban officials is a pretty lopsided deal for one obscure, disoriented nco. If these stories are true, the tragic part is the soldiers who were wounded or killed trying to find this guy. I'm fairly confident the guys we released will be giving interviews on Al Jazeera the minute they step off the plane and vanish shortly afterwards.

The prisoner exchange was the only option. Deserter or dereliction or duty, he is still an American citizen.

The five Taliban leaders have all been at gitmo for 12 years or more. I personally would question the leadership capability of anyone who had been detained at Guantanamo for that long.

The current Taliban leadership may want several of those released back for something much more nasty than just a little homecoming celebration.

The other two detainees, Abdul Haq Wasiq, the Taliban’s former deputy minister of intelligence, and Mohammad Nabi Omari, a former high-level Taliban security official, were both detained after reaching out to American officials after the invasion in an offer to help the new power in their country, officials said.

Bold mine

And it appears that two others had surrendered to the Northern Alliance. What, no fight to the death?

Trapped with thousands of his Taliban fighters in northern Afghanistan under the American bombing campaign in 2001, he surrendered to the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance, along with the Taliban governor of Balkh Province, Mullah Norullah Noori, who was also released Saturday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/02/w...ve-taliban-figures-offers-rare-view.html?_r=0

 

[Astronuc]

Some discussion on the legal matters regarding how Bergdahl went missing.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/06/05/military-law-bergdahl

How will the U.S. military deal with the controversial case of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl?
Military law expert Eugene Fidell discusses these questions with Here & Now’s Robin Young.

Eugene Fidell, teaches military justice at Yale University. He’s also co-founder and former president of National Institute of Military Justice.

 

[nsaspook]

I think the case will go the way of Charles Robert Jenkins if he is declared a deserter. Little or no jail time if in fact he just left his post and did not willingly and actively plan or execute actions against the US government. The fact that people may have died looking for him while regrettable is a part of the normal risks of duty in SAR.
http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/6228667-74/panetta-bergdahl-obama#axzz33pKHkfkK

Panetta repeated Obama's defense of the exchange by noting a longtime principle in the American military: “You don't leave anybody behind,” said Panetta, an Army intelligence officer in the 1960s.

The circumstances of Bergdahl's 2009 capture don't appear to be an issue for Panetta, who noted a long history of negotiating prisoner swaps.

“Sometimes people do stupid things. You still go after them,” he said.

But negotiators must take care to ensure that exchanged prisoners aren't sent back to fight against us, he said.

Jenkins:
http://www.artonline.jp/gwangju.html

 

[Evo]

Some discussion on the legal matters regarding how Bergdahl went missing.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/06/05/military-law-bergdahl

How will the U.S. military deal with the controversial case of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl?
Military law expert Eugene Fidell discusses these questions with Here & Now’s Robin Young.

Eugene Fidell, teaches military justice at Yale University. He’s also co-founder and former president of National Institute of Military Justice.

Is there a transcript posted? I don't want to listen. And I don't want to download anything.

 

[Astronuc]

Is there a transcript posted? I don't want to listen. And I don't want to download anything.

I'm not sure. I could only see the mp3 file.

 

[Evo]

I'm not sure. I could only see the mp3 file.

Oh well, I guess I'll try to listen when I have time. I wish these sites would realize that some people are only able to read snippets off and on and be polite enough to post transcripts.

Thanks for posting that.

 

[iDimension]

This kinda reminds me of the TV series "Homeland" where a US marine is held captive by the taliban and eventually turned into a suicide bomber who is then "rescued" by the army and brought back to his homeland, only later to plot an act of terrorism against the united states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeland_(TV_series)

Great show btw.

 

[Chronos]

The way I see it, he was either nuts, smoked out of his gourd [as alleged], or both. In any case, as I see it, any 'deal' should have been one for one - not five for one. It's not like he was a five star general.

 

[OmCheeto]

Nice little synopsis at the Daily Kos.

...
And, finally, the infamous "ashamed to be an American" e-mails that numbnuts like Sarah Palin keep using to attacking Bergdahl, were actually quite patriotic in context. He was complaining about the low caliber of person he had to suffer through in his unit, and how crappily they treated the Afghans (In one case, he said they indifferently ran over a child with a truck!). He was ashamed of the way the military operated there.
...

bolding mine

... I'm fairly confident the guys we released will be giving interviews on Al Jazeera the minute they step off the plane and vanish shortly afterwards.

I checked Al Jazeera yesterday and today, and can't find any interviews. They do have an article which conveniently links to the wikileaks "secret noforn" documents on the 5. Two are wanted by the UN in connection with war crimes.

...
Detainee is wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.
...

So it's possible that those two at least, will never see their homes again.

And per the agreement of exchange, none of the 5 will be permitted to leave Qatar for 1 year.

 

[nsaspook]

bolding mine

And, finally, the infamous "ashamed to be an American" e-mails that numbnuts like Sarah Palin keep using to attacking Bergdahl, were actually quite patriotic in context. He was complaining about the low caliber of person he had to suffer through in his unit, and how crappily they treated the Afghans (In one case, he said they indifferently ran over a child with a truck!). He was ashamed of the way the military operated there.

I don't know if they were indifferent but you have to be numb to death and serious injury to prevent yourself from going crazy. You just keep it in a box to think about later. I've been to a few terrorism tactics schools before long before these current wars, one of the things they tell you is NEVER stop or DIVERT from your known safe lane of travel while on the road. We had a cow catcher on the front of the armored transport van when we traveled inland between bases. If the local driver didn't follow the route no matter what (we ran past local 'police' roadblocks, over cattle and even bumped a few people but I don't think we killed anyone), we would have shot him on the spot and took over the wheel.

A typical guide given to family members: https://info.publicintelligence.net/DoD-CombatTerrorism.pdf

In respect to Bowe Bergdahl actions a old Intel axiom applies to his case, 'never assume malice over stupidity'.

 

[OmCheeto]

...
In respect to Bowe Bergdahl actions a old Intel axiom applies to his case, 'never assume malice over stupidity'.

I was 18 once. I joined the Navy.

The only differences I can see between Bowe, and myself, are that we were born 30 years apart, I was surrounded by people smarter than I, and he was surrounded by imbeciles.

ps. The reference to my wanting to buy him a sailboat stems from the 2010 Taliban propaganda video, where he stated that his interests were motor-biking and sailing.

pps. The video is not worth watching, other than those two facts: "I love my mom, and my dad, and my sister, and..."

 

[SteamKing]

I was 18 once. I joined the Navy.

The only differences I can see between Bowe, and myself, are that we were born 30 years apart, I was surrounded by people smarter than I, and he was surrounded by imbeciles.

The soldiers he served with and who were sent looking for him might resent that last remark.

 

[nsaspook]

I was 18 once. I joined the Navy.

The only differences I can see between Bowe, and myself, are that we were born 30 years apart, I was surrounded by people smarter than I, and he was surrounded by imbeciles.

None of the guys I've seen in interviews so far about Bowe gave me the impression they were in that league. Saying it about Bowe IMO is giving him the benefit of doubt of not being a traitor.

 

[OmCheeto]

The soldiers he served with and who were sent looking for him might resent that last remark.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh. I'm sure most of his comrades were decent fellows. Actually, Bowe himself, in his final email before being captured, stated; "Three good sergeants had been forced to move to another company, and "one of the biggest **** bags is being put in charge of the team."(ref)

The original reference to someone running down a kid is somewhat different than what I've just found, and this may have been misrepresented by the author of the article.

He then referred to what his parents believe may have been a formative, possibly traumatic event: seeing an Afghan child run over by an MRAP. "We don't even care when we hear each other talk about running their children down in the dirt streets with our armored trucks... We make fun of them in front of their faces, and laugh at them for not understanding we are insulting them."

It's not clear to me now, that Bowe ever witnessed this. From my experience, intra-military conversations can be what I can only describe as sick and twisted. So, in fact, no child may have been run down, as is being reported.

I'd love to get ahold of the original email.

Well what a weird coincidence, that article was written 2 years ago, to the day. "JUNE 7, 2012 8:00 AM ET. "

None of the guys I've seen in interviews so far about Bowe gave me the impression they were in that league. Saying it about Bowe IMO is giving him the benefit of doubt of not being a traitor.

I don't watch TV, so I've seen no interviews. I did research who was talking about him yesterday and ran across one of them:

Cody Full, former member of Bergdahl's platoon

KELLY: "Cody... do you believe that Bowe Bergdahl deserted?"
Cody; "Yes, I do believe deserted without a doubt in my mind."

(ref)

So I looked to see what motive Cody would have, to say either good or bad things, about Bowe. Someone printed this about Cody:

...his ceaseless venom towards President Obama, his support for Cliven Bundy, his regular use of ‘Libtard’ – and his scrubbing of his social media offerings that included ‘a N****r’ pic once he began his Twitter campaign against Bergdahl.

bolding mine(ref)

If true, I find that interesting.

 

[nsaspook]

I'd be a lot more interested in the official report on the actions of his NCOs 'around the time' Bowe took off from the camp. It looks to me Bowe just 'Went Native' to the point of no return and left with some mystical intention to help instead of hurt so let him go back home to complete his quest.

I'm also shocked that a sensitive soldier would have problems with his Sergeant and Commander.

 

[OmCheeto]

I'd be a lot more interested in the official report on the actions of his NCOs 'around the time' Bowe took off from the camp. It looks to me Bowe just 'Went Native' to the point of no return and left with some mystical intention to help instead of hurt so let him go back home to complete his quest.

hmmm... This kind of makes me want to title his forthcoming book:

Idaho Buddhist in Afghanistan

subtitle: From Whenseforth, All Manner of Oxymoronic Statements, Spewed

I'm also shocked that a sensitive soldier would have problems with his Sergeant and Commander.

Well, maybe there is a difference between Bowe and I. The day after I was court-martialed^[1], I kind of performed a silly passive aggressive act.

I'd sent my captain a, "by the rules", subliminal message:

If you want me to play by the rules, you'd better play by the rules.

The captain expunged the court-martial from my records, the next day.

Though I think it was a combination of my hubris, and the fact that I fessed up to my incompetence at the trial, as my sergeant^[2] had the biggest, "OMG", ****-eating grin on his face when he told me the news.

---------------------------
[1] captains mast
[2] chief petty officer(whatever...)
pre-parsed for the civvies out there, because even I couldn't keep that trivial "rank" stuff straight back then.

 

[nsaspook]

The captain expunged the court-martial from my records, the next day.

I went to (XO) mast once but I gave the perfect Navy reason for being late to the guy. Got drunk on liberty, hooked up with a bar girl and was rolled for my money, pants and shoes but I always kept my ID card in my socks in town. He told me to get out and go back to work.

Most of the military understands that people sometimes screwup but if you simply walk away from your duty you better have a damn good reason why.

 

[OmCheeto]

...
Most of the military understands that people sometimes screwup but if you simply walk away from your duty you better have a damn good reason why.

Yah, he should have chosen the other option. It would have spared us all this trauma of having to blather about it.

We only had two suicide attempts in the four years I was attached to my submarine. My guess is they were claustrophobic.

hmmm... In my attempt to find statistics on battlefield suicide rates, I ran across the following:

All Quiet on the Western Front {Quotes}
Publication date 29 January 1929

“I am young, I am twenty years old; yet I know nothing of life but despair, death, fear, and fatuous superficiality cast over an abyss of sorrow. I see how peoples are set against one another, and in silence, unknowingly, foolishly, obediently, innocently slay one another.”

“It is very queer that the unhappiness of the world is so often brought on by small men.”

“We are forlorn like children, and experienced like old men, we are crude and sorrowful and superficial—I believe we are lost.”

“How senseless is everything that can ever be written, done, or thought, when such things are possible. It must be all lies and of no account when the culture of a thousand years could not prevent this stream of blood being poured out, these torture-chambers in their hundreds of thousands. A hospital alone shows what war is.”

bolding mine

I've never read the book, nor seen the movie.

Perhaps Bowe should skip writing a book, just scratch Erich's name out, and insert his own.

 

[SixNein]

If true, I find that interesting.

Our politics is nothing short of ugly. This guy has sacrificed years of his life, and he isn't receiving the benefit of fair justice. Until such a time where an investigation is held and the facts clearly presented, people aren't doing anything but speculating on rumor.

People are going so far as to send his father death threats:
http://news.yahoo.com/bowe-bergdahls-father-receives-death-threats-police-chief-030621720.html

 

[jim hardy]

I've never read the book, nor seen the movie.

If you decide to see the movie i suggest the 1930 B&W not the 1979 remake.