Breivik - Who made him do it?

  1. I just saw this video about some acquaintance Breivik had and I'm lost as to why he did what he did. Earlier I thought he was just plain crazy. But, now I'm not so sure.

    Just to be clear. I'm not willing to understand why he did it as the act itself is beyond any sensible analysis. Just who or what compelled him to do it.


    The video should explain what I'm getting at. In it his acquaintance hints that there may have been some group of people behind this that brainwashed him? If you look at things this way then these people should also be culpable (to a similar degree) for Breiviks actions. Furthermore, these groups that exist in Oslo should be dealt with in a mannerly fashion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  2. jcsd
  3. arildno

    arildno 12,015
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    I've never been approached by any such groups, but I live in central Oslo.

    This guy is just speculating, but that is allowed.
     
  4. It sounds like the fellow in the interview new him about 25 to 30 years ago? The reporter was over-reaching a bit - IMO.
     
  5. arildno

    arildno 12,015
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    But then again, I have my own circuit and habitual places in Oslo that might be free of these pests.
     
  6. The way I understood his motivations is like this: Breivik had lost his belief in democratic process, but was still politically active. He then made the decision, that since he cannot influence the society through democracy, he might as well start influencing it through terror.

    Understanding criminals' motives and thinking can be controversial, because "understanding" is easily confused with "accepting". But I think I just succeeded in explaining Breivik's thinking in brief and neutral fashion?

    For the preemptive point of view, I would assert that if Breivik had believed that he can achieve something through democratic process, he would have stayed away from terrorism.

    Why then did he lose his faith in democracy? That's the mystery.

    ----

    One news article revealed, that the manifest revealed, that Breivik had been beaten by a Pakistani gang when he was young. That incident could have shaped his world view.
     
  7. Ryan_m_b

    Staff: Mentor

    Not so much a mystery if you want to start flicking through his 1500 page manifesto on the problems with Europe, multiculturalism and how to deal with it.
     
  8. Oh well, I guess that's obvious in the end.

    Back to the original topic: I don't believe in the hypothesis that some right wing extremist group would have "manipulated" Breivik into to committing the terrorist act.

    They way I understood this is that Breivik did have some connections to some groups or parties, but apparently he decided to abandon these groups, because for some reason he became disillusioned by them.

    So, to me it seems that the right wing groups were too "moderate" for Breivik...
     
  9. arildno

    arildno 12,015
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    Perhaps he stopped believing in the power of the democratic process because he didn't want to believe in it, having a romantization of violence as the ultimate political tool.
     
  10. We could also ask "what made him do it"? This is pure speculation, because an amateur cannot make a medical diagnosis through Internet, but I'm just telling what I think:

    http://static.iltalehti.fi/ulkomaat/breivikkauneusjuttu2807JL_503_ul.jpg (On the right is a photograph taken on Monday. On the left is some older posing picture.)

    Considering the way he looks from front now, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy has got a tumor in his head.
     
  11. arildno

    arildno 12,015
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    Or, a person looks quite differently when they are in their early 20s and their early 30s.

    Those "boyish" Anders pictures are those he himself has chosen to represent himself to the world with.
     
  12. Yes, but IMO he looks like he's above 40.

    This is how I would put some stuff together:

    Fact: Breivik has committed an act that is incomprehensible for ordinary folks.

    Fact: His eye balls point at different directions. (I haven't encountered evidence, that they have always pointed so.)

    Fact: He has admitted using anabolic steroids.

    Hypothesis: Possibly he has also abused anabolic steroids, since he isn't a serious bodybuilder who would know what he's doing.

    My opinion: He looks like at least 10 years older than what he really is.

    Considering the factors mentioned above, I would come up with:

    Hypothesis: He has a tumor in his head.

    Not a rigorous deduction, but I'm just telling that that would make sense. I can admit that I hope he has a tumor in his head, because then all this would make more sense.
     
  13. Ryan_m_b

    Staff: Mentor

    I find it interesting that on TV, in conversations and even here on PF people are rationalising Breiviks behaviour with all sorts of hypothesis such as he's mentally ill, he's ****ed up on drugs, he's got a brain tumour etc. I can't help but think that if he had been a radical muslim people wouldn't be questioning that he committed the crimes in the name of his religion.

    Personally I think he did all this because he fervently believes in his ideology, the fact that he hasn't used the word "god" has thrown people off the automatic free-passes that religion usually get's an allowed people to view how mental his ideologies really are.
     
  14. The islamic terrorism makes lot more sense that Breivik's act. The western world has been running oil crusades against the islamic world, and imposed imperial policies with violence, so it is no wonder that the islamic militants have responded to the war with a war.

    Breivik's act is lot more horrendous than the terrorist acts of the islamists.
     
  15. Ryan_m_b

    Staff: Mentor

    I'm not going to play terrorist top trumps but the defining difference here is that for Islamic terrorists (and I am using this definition to mean terrorists who commit terrorism in the name of Islam not terrorists who commit terrorism and happen to be Islamic) are embarking on a holy war. Their ideology is focused around the idea of a God, Breivik's ideology wasn't.

    NOTE: I am aware however of the Christian influence and ideas inherent within Breivik's ideology i.e. returning Europe to a culturally Christian state but IMO given what we know now he was not motivated because of religious ideology but because of political ideology.
     
  16. There is no room for analysis/rationalising in ideologies.
     
  17. It was not my intention to speculate that some tumor could have caused this all. Surely his conservative knights templar ideology and a struggle against "cultural marxism" played a key role. I was merely thinking that the final cause could have been a combination of non-mainstream ideology and a medical condition.

    I'll just emphasize what I said, and hopefully succeed in not making stuff more complicated:

     
  18. Stuff from Scandinavian media:

    I just read that in Norway a defendant has right to refuse from psychiatric examination, and so far Breivik has used this right. His lawyer has explained, that Breivik doesn't trust Norwegian psychiatrists, and has demanded foreign ones.

    It is not clear to me if this psychiatric examination means all medical examination in this context.

    It seems that this is a topic of which we'll hear more later.
     
  19. arildno

    arildno 12,015
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    ABB is fairly well-informed about Norway, and probably knows what foreigners do not, namely the extreme authority psychiatrists have in determining whether a person is fit to go on trial, or is to be judged capable of standing trial.
    In many other countries trials are held even if the defendant is a raving lunatic, and the psychiatrists' judgments are only brought in once a verdict is fallen.

    In Norway, the psychiatrists can close a trial before it is held, and as the publicity beast ABB is, I'm sure he desperately wants a full, open trial of him.

    Thus, this might possibly be a tactic from ABB to ensure that his lawyer does not influence the psychiatrists in judging him insane, which probably would be easier if they are fellow Norwegians.
    Geir Lippestad is a brilliant lawyer, and a conscientious one as well, and his remarks to the press that he personally regards ABB insane is probably a fishing tactic to see if he can get his client into less austere conditions at a mental hospital than ABB will face in a prison cell.

    Of course, "austerity" is a relative term, Norwegian prisons are quite luxurious, by American standards.


    Apart from this tactical duel with his own lawyer, it might be that ABB wants a foreign psychiatrist so that this psychiatrist will provide a better vehicle in his home country (say, the US) for ABBs ideas and personality, i.e, "spreading the word", so to say.
    Anders Behring Breivik is a narcissist, and wants to maximize publicity about his acts and intentions.
    What he does NOT want is to be swiftly relegated to the loony bin and pass into the memory hole for the world outside.


    Another possible point might be that ABB perfectly well knows that there are no psychiatrists in Norway who have first hand experience with serial killers like himself.
    He wants, perhaps, be judged sane by a top international expert, rather than insane by some local shrink. (Obviously, he regards himself as sane..)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  20. turbo

    turbo 7,366
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    This is sad, Arildno. The gaming of Norway's legal system is just icing on the cake of ABB's savage acts. Is this guy going to be held in luxury for the rest of his life, even if the judiciary feels that he is an ongoing threat and can extend his sentences?
     
  21. Well he's clearly insane and delusional. There's no point in torturing him.
     
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