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Bull Fights

  1. Sep 6, 2009 #1
    Last week I saw this documentary on PBS/POV:


    And then I fell in love with this:

    So now, during the past week I have talked to people around here about the subject of bull fights. The overwhelming majority shuns it, bringing in arguments like "it is cruel", "torture", "slaughter".

    In the early 90's I attended bull fights while I was in Barcelona, Spain. To me, a bull fight is an art performance, like a symphony, a thing of beauty, grace, harmony, and respect.

    I don't see anything wrong with it, unlike cock or dog fights which I am against strongly.

    Where do you guys stand on the subject? Am I the only one who enjoys bull fights?
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 6, 2009 #2


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    I don't see the necessity nor appeal of killing an animal for entertainment.

    Why not simply dance with the bulls - without injuring them?
  4. Sep 6, 2009 #3


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    One man, as nature created him. One bull, likewise. That's fair; I'd pay to watch that.

    But, as it is, it's a barbaric "sport" that tortures an animal for enjoyment. You want to eat the bull? Fine; shoot in cleanly in the head.
  5. Sep 6, 2009 #4


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    Totally agree. The fact that the human wins...ok, just making up this statistic...99.9% of the time shows that clearly, this is killing an animal purely for entertainment...*shudder*.

    Oh and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfighting" [Broken]:

    So, based on demographics, in several decades bullfighting may die a natural death...unlike the bulls involved in this gruesome "sport."
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  6. Sep 6, 2009 #5
    I think it would be more interesting without the knife.
  7. Sep 6, 2009 #6


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    Well, the French style of bullfighting is just that. Say what you will about the French, but at least they do this the right way.
  8. Sep 6, 2009 #7
    For those calling it torture, according to the wiki article the bull fighter is supposed to kill the bull quickly and cleanly with a single stroke. I'm sure it often happens that this ideal is not achieved but apparently torturing the animal would be considered poor sportsmanship.

    I still do not like the idea of killing an animal for entertainment myself though.
  9. Sep 6, 2009 #8


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    O RLY?

    Sounds like torture to me.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2009
  10. Sep 6, 2009 #9

    Math Is Hard

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    You're on a slippery slope, though. Next stop: cat juggling.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  11. Sep 6, 2009 #10


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    Equate said this:
    Do you believe that the bull thinks the same way about this?
  12. Sep 6, 2009 #11
    Who knows?

    Death is inevitable to the bull no matter what. If I were the bull and be given the choice between the slaughterhouse and the corrida, I would take the arena any day. At least depart live with some dignity.
  13. Sep 6, 2009 #12
    The purpose for bull fighting, if ever there was one, is past. Hopefully the same applies to all forms of violence.
  14. Sep 6, 2009 #13
    The only purpose has been, and always will be, to put on an entertaining spectacle.
  15. Sep 7, 2009 #14
    Spain may well be the most beautiful land I have ever visited. That is spectacle enough without a sensation which many humankind - including Spaniards - call cruelty to animals. Such drawn-out execution like bullfighting is rightly associated with gratuitous brutality - not entertainment, no matter how one dresses the torture.
  16. Sep 7, 2009 #15
    The last time I was in Aruba, there was a bull-fighting show on the TV, so I watched it. What I saw was that the bull was let out into the ring and started to romp around exuberantly. I imagine it had been cooped up just prior. It would chase after the clowns but without any purpose. It would halt the chase after one clown for distraction by another. This entertaining exuberance grinds to a halt over time as it is stabbed several times with knives that presumably have barbs in them since they don't fall off. They dangle from its back and that's gotta hurt. Before the audience has a chance to get bored and start playing cribbage, the matador starts to 'fight' with it. I thought that the bull was supposed to be enraged by the knives and would charge at the bullfighter. This was not the case. I think this docile creature was dazed and confused, but not angry. It didn't charge the matador, but did on occasion charge the matador's cape. Big deal. Bull zero, cape one. The beast is an idiot by human standards. by cape standards it's touch and go, but the cape doesn't have gayly colored knives stuck in it. Even then, it had to be coaxed. It would stand there and the bullfighter would present the cape and the bull would look away. To no avail poor beast, there was not a blade of grass to eat, no cows shaking that thang, and what else would a bull be looking for? Shake the cape. No interest. Take a step toward the bull. Oh all right, I'll charge if I must. The bull makes a beeline for the cape, completely ignoring its 'tormentor' and having charged it to no effect, stands still and has to be reminded that it is in a fight for its life by the matador. Perhap the whole point is to see how long you can keep the bull's attention focused on the action. After a while, the bull is exhausted, presumably from pain, loss of blood, the pointless and onesided fight with the cape, poor sleep the night before, and the mindnumbing boredom that is the life of a bull. Now the brave matador, exposes the sword and points it at the bull's forehead. If it was me I would pull that old karate manuver where you get up on the toes of one foot, pivot on the other, turn and high-tail it for some country where they don't fight bulls. But the bull has no clue what a sword is and what it is for. Perhaps they should paint it red and wave it. It wouldn't do any good, because this bull wouldn't charge a cow if it was painted red just now. It wants a nap more than anything else. The bull just stands there with a 'what next?' look on its face. In goes the sword and down goes the bull. Well, yeah, only one side was fighting and that side won. Big whoop. I say give the bull the cape and sword and stick bandaleros in the matador and see if that makes for an interesting fight.
  17. Sep 7, 2009 #16
    Interesting opinions so far...
  18. Sep 7, 2009 #17
    How does bullfighting compare with rodeo, where they do some pretty nasty things to the animals?

    Then there's the process leading up to the slaughterhouse. See the documentary Meat.
  19. Oct 22, 2009 #18
    I watched it again and loved it.


    Mari Paz is great. The bull is dignified in defeat.

    Go ahead and scorn me now.
  20. Oct 23, 2009 #19
    So you'd rather have people laughing and shouting at you while you are tortured and eventually killed, while you try desperately to defend yourself, than being killed quickly and without spectacle? And you call that dignity? :uhh:
  21. Oct 23, 2009 #20

    Vanadium 50

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    Best bullfight ever.

  22. Oct 23, 2009 #21

    Go visit Spain if you get a chance. And then live it.
  23. Oct 26, 2009 #22
    I've visited Spain, and I went to a bull ring/museum in Valencia and I thought that the outfits were cool and the history was interesting, but I found the rest morbid and disturbing and I'm glad I didn't have to pay to get in and their bathroom was free too...
  24. Oct 26, 2009 #23
    This article may make some of you feel a little better,http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...val-pretending-matador-entertain-crowds.html".

    This http://www.history.com/encyclopedia.do?articleId=204065" [Broken] is a short history of bullfighting. I was surprised to find that bullfights have been around since around 1500 bc, however the earlier fights were more acrobatic than actual fighting, the "fighters"(male and female) would jump the bull by grabbing his horns and throw themselves over the back of the bull. To me that sounds a little more dangerous and entertaining than the present sport of bullfighting, kind of like rodeo clowns. I also found it interesting that the bulls used for the fights dont need to be starved, tortured, or prodded to charge the matador as they are purposely breed to charge anything that moves and that is why they chase the cape not because of its color but because of the movement. One other thing was that bulls used for the fights get one more year of life than bulls that are slaughtered. Someone earlier in this thread said they would rather have a chance to kill their tormentor in a bullfight than to just be killed at the slaughter house if they were a bull and I would have to agree, I would gladly suffer some pain to get a year longer to live and a chance to kill the guy putting me through pain and suffering. One thing that I think gets overlooked by those trying to end our use of animals for anything(food, clothing, entertainment) is what will happen to those animals once there is no use for them? Is it supposed that ranchers will raise an animal that they cant sell or use, or would it logically follow that the ranchers will no longer raise the animals and they would be or come close to extinction? I know quite a few ranchers and would have to say for the most part they would happily go out and shoot all their cows(well all except for the ones they keep for their own use) before they would pay to raise them with no chance of profit. This may sound callous but I think it is just being realistic.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  25. Oct 26, 2009 #24


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    Notice that the bull is not given a choice of how it will die. If you were to anthropomorphize the situation so that it could, it (or you) still wouldn't have a choice in the matter.

    How could there possibly be dignity in dying for the entertainment of an audience?

    But it is not a human. Animals do not experience dignity or shame. They experience pain.
  26. Oct 26, 2009 #25
    lol epic. I thoroughly enjoyed that.
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