News Bush Wins

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Originally posted by Zero
The problem is, you can't remove the social safety net and still help children and create the tools for the poor to improve their position in life.
But you can change, and in some places, lessen that net.

I'll reply more later- I'm off for the evening :)
 

Zero

Originally posted by phatmonky
But you can change, and in some places, lessen that net.

I'll reply more later- I'm off for the evening :)
Yeah, go away, and tell me tomorrow why a corporate safety net is ok, but a social one is not..
 

russ_watters

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Originally posted by kawikdx225
Considering the Democratic candidates I PREY TO GOD that Bush wins the next election!!! I'm definately voting for him.

And no I am not a rich buisness owner nor do I make alot of money.
Originally posted by Zero
And under Bush, you never will be...but you'll vote for Bush anyway. Why?
You say stuff like this all the time, Zero, but I've never asked you: what specific and essential component of your plan to become a rich business owner has Bush undermined? 'Cause I gotta tell you - my plan to become a rich business owner has nothing to do with any of what Bush is doing there in Washington. There is very little he could do to sabbotage me.

And it appears phatmonkey, kawikdx225, and I have the same worldviews: Zero, all three of us have made a choice to create our own destiny. You appear to have a ready-made excuse for failure, and I'm sure you know the power of a self-fulfilling prophecy. The attitude on that choice (and the very fact that your attitude is a choice) appears to me to be the fundamental difference between Republicans and Democrats (not surprisingly, also the fundamental difference between successes and failures). Ironic, isn't it - I thought it was the liberals who were supposed to be idealistic!

Also, re: corporate profits. Where do you think the money goes?
Zero, its seems like you think a corporation is an entity that eats money. You buy a product, the corporation gets it and the money is consumed and disappears under the caption "profit." Don't you have a stock portfolio? The more profitable companies give dividends. They also give raises and bonuses to reward their employees for their help making the company succeed.

I really struck a nerve with this thread. Jeez - 3 pages in 1 day.
 
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Zero

Hey, I don't plan on failing...my goals aren't to be rich, though, because it would interfere with my PF mentor duties.

What I'm talking about is things like undercutting public schools with the school voucher scam, tax cuts that make sure that state programs get cut, cutting health care for poor kids, things like that.
 

russ_watters

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Originally posted by Zero
Hey, I don't plan on failing...my goals aren't to be rich, though, because it would interfere with my PF mentor duties.

What I'm talking about is things like undercutting public schools with the school voucher scam, tax cuts that make sure that state programs get cut, cutting health care for poor kids, things like that.
Zero, none of those things apply to YOU, ME, or kawikdx225 (the one you told Bush would keep from succeeding). They are also extra assistance. Taking away extra assistance (I'm not saying those programs are good or bad) is not the same as putting a roadblock in front of someone.
 

Zero

Originally posted by russ_watters
Zero, none of those things apply to YOU, ME, or kawikdx225 (the one you told Bush would keep from succeeding). They are also extra assistance. Taking away extra assistance (I'm not saying those programs are good or bad) is not the same as putting a roadblock in front of someone.
Public schools are 'extra assistance'? Making sure that children are healthy is 'extra assistance'? Really? I thought we called that 'civilization'.
 

russ_watters

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Originally posted by Zero
Public schools are 'extra assistance'?
No, but you didn't say public schools, you said vouchers. Thats not the point in any case:
Zero, none of those things apply to YOU, ME, or kawikdx225 (the one you told Bush would keep from succeeding).
What specifically has Bush done that will prevent US from succeeding? You have said quite directly that he will (a number of times). I want to know how.
 
3,073
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A vote for Bush by any American citizen of the world is a sell out. He has surrounded himself with greed and false respectability. For the wannabe rich Republican, the ends justify the lies.
 
55
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Originally posted by Loren Booda
A vote for Bush by any American citizen of the world is a sell out. He has surrounded himself with greed and false respectability. For the wannabe rich Republican, the ends justify the lies.

Do you have more than childish rhetoric in this claim?h
 

Tsu

Gold Member
353
63
Originally posted by phatmonky
Do you have more than childish rhetoric in this claim?h
LOL. For someone who blindly follows his 'leader' no matter how bad he might be (more than slightly reminiscent of the Germans and THEIR illustrious 'leader'), this is the most laughable question I've seen in ages. Brainwashing is fascinating.
 
55
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Originally posted by Tsunami
LOL. For someone who blindly follows his 'leader' no matter how bad he might be (more than slightly reminiscent of the Germans and THEIR illustrious 'leader'), this is the most laughable question I've seen in ages. Brainwashing is fascinating.
Again, I repeat - Anything more than childish rhetoric?
A Hitler reference? I've never heard that before!
You have yet to pick a specific point that I agree on, and explain why I shouldn't. But alas, I shouldn't expect so much from someone who uses "LOL"
 

Tsu

Gold Member
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Originally posted by phatmonky
Again, I repeat - Anything more than childish rhetoric?
A Hitler reference? I've never heard that before!
You have yet to pick a specific point that I agree on, and explain why I shouldn't. But alas, I shouldn't expect so much from someone who uses "LOL"
Any more lame retorts?
 
55
2
Originally posted by Tsunami
Any more lame retorts?
You still have yet to answer the original question, so I take that as a "no".
You are doing nothing more than wasting space in this thread, but I do find one thing humorous. You are so overly polarized in politics that you assume that if I think your post is lacking any credibility, I MUST be voting for Bush, and there for agree with everything he does. And I'm the sheep? You are the one with the pavlovian style response to disagreement.
 

Tsu

Gold Member
353
63
Originally posted by phatmonky
You still have yet to answer the original question, so I take that as a "no".
You are doing nothing more than wasting space in this thread, but I do find one thing humorous. You are so overly polarized in politics that you assume that if I think your post is lacking any credibility, I MUST be voting for Bush, and there for agree with everything he does. And I'm the sheep? You are the one with the pavlovian style response to disagreement.
YEAH! THERE ya go! You're getting GOOD at this... Now, shoot yourself in the OTHER foot, too!
 
732
2
The bottom line is that Bush was a poor leader pre-9/11, and he's a poor leader post 9/11, but people are focusing on the positive aspects of that incidence and the resultant war because they are "comfortable". Now with his recent "space exploration" ideal, he's trying to sway the vote(and suceeding unfortunately) in taking forcus off of the negative. typical manuever in an election year. Come up with some great plan for exploration just as elections are starting to weigh on people's minds, then slide it to the back burner as soon as he's reelected.

If you completely set aside 9/11, and afghanistan, you're left with a very mediocre leader.
 
3,073
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For the "comfortable" people:

1. What actual fiscal responsibility has the U. S. upper class toward their poor?

2. May the United States Constitution bestow any rights upon corporations, or upon lethal mechanical contrivances?

3. Do you believe that God blesses the United States above all other nations?

4. Is their no hypocracy in consuming precious resources with large, unadopted families, then denying any options for a destitute rape victim to terminate her pregnancy?
 

amp

Russ and Phat probably cried when

that former Sec of treasury came out with his book lambasting Bush, since he was an insider he was cognizant of what was going on. And the things he said in the book that I've heard mentioned by the media are in line with what I saw going on and what a lot of people thought.
*Bush wanted to start a war with Iraq even before 9/11* Who didn't know that?
 

russ_watters

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Originally posted by Loren Booda
For the "comfortable" people:

1. What actual fiscal responsibility has the U. S. upper class toward their poor?

2. May the United States Constitution bestow any rights upon corporations, or upon lethal mechanical contrivances?

3. Do you believe that God blesses the United States above all other nations?

4. Is their no hypocracy in consuming precious resources with large, unadopted families, then denying any options for a destitute rape victim to terminate her pregnancy?
1. None.

2. Huh?

3. No - and where did that come from? It has nothing to do with anything.

4. Maybe. I'm pro choice anyway. In any case, what does that have to do with this thread?
If you completely set aside 9/11, and afghanistan, you're left with a very mediocre leader.
Believe it or not guys, I actually agree with this statement.
 

amp

Will Bush still win if America knew how he is

treating the soldiers he has sent into harms way? Heres a snippet of an article at:

http://www.counterpunch.org/vest01092004.html [Broken]

Think of it ... wounded veterans "held captive" ... prevented from seeing people who have a congressional charter to serve them ... not allowed to speak with DAV reps in private, lest their "privacy" be violated ... an administration that regards Disabled American Veterans as security risks.
A government increasingly unable to tell the difference between terrorists and its own citizens.
 
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3,073
3
As I see it, those questions I posed delineate typical status-quo Republican policy that the public is willing to compromise for a seemingly better economy.

1. My argument that Democrats are basically a party of need, and Republicans a party of greed. You appear to have confirmed this.

2. Do corporations (fiscal entities) deserve any rights that individuals enjoy? The same question for guns - the only mechanism supposedly referred to in the Constitution. I basically say that individual rights supercede "rights" of other entities.

3. The fundamentalist-religious Right that buoys Bush and supports Armageddon in Israel overwhelmingly takes this stance.

4. Do you think the majority of Republicans would support this rape victim in her right to choose?
 

Zero

Somehow, I believe that the government thinks that 'fiscal entities' not only have rights, but are more deserving of rights than the people. Lobbyists have huge power in government, which is fine, I guess, so long as the politicians realize that they are supposed to be our lobby in government. The government is supposed to represent the people, not the corporate interests. When the interest of a corporation is in line with the common good, I have no problem with that idea. When the corporate interest lies in opposition to the interests of the people, then the corporations need to get in line.
 

selfAdjoint

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Just a point. Unions and other non-corporate organizations have large lobbying staffs in Washington too. We are not quite yet at the corporate state, although I do believe the Bush administration has moved us in that direction.
 

russ_watters

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Originally posted by Loren Booda
1. My argument that Democrats are basically a party of need, and Republicans a party of greed. You appear to have confirmed this.
I see the Democrats as the party of need as well, but that also makes them the party of greed. The Democrats do a version of Robin Hood: 'Vote for us and we'll steal money and give it to you!'

What you are calling greed is people wanting to keep their money. I find that aguement twisted.

2. Do corporations (fiscal entities) deserve any rights that individuals enjoy?
No. Rights are for individuals. The only rights that go to corporations are designed for the individuals in them, not the coproration as an entity.
3. The fundamentalist-religious Right that buoys Bush and supports Armageddon in Israel overwhelmingly takes this stance.
I just don't see this as an issue. Though vocal, religious extremists of all types are in the minority.
4. Do you think the majority of Republicans would support this rape victim in her right to choose?
Dunno - I think more than you expect would though. Most people don't see things as black and white as the two parties try to make them.
 

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