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Buy a Truck, Get an AK-47

  1. Jul 17, 2009 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    http://trucks.about.com/b/2009/07/17/buy-a-truck-get-an-ak-47.htm

    The anchor on CNN was funny. She said that she also grew up with guns but they didn't have semi-assault rifles in the house [as if there is such a thing]. Why AK47s, she asked? Well, actually, if they had guns for deer or other large game, she did have high-power rifles that are just as lethal as an AK47 [perhaps women weren't allowed to handle guns in her house]. Also, one wants a gun designed to kill people if they are using it for home defense - that is the point of having a weapon. Also, well-armed citizens are the last line of defense in the event of an invasion.

    Just more of this lame notion that people only want guns to hunt, I suppose. If you are going to shoot someone like an intruder, you want something that will do the job. Personally, I tend to prefer a 12 gauge at close range.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
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  3. Jul 17, 2009 #2

    Evo

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    :tongue2:

    Missouri allows concealed weapons, 'cause you never know when you might get mugged by a deer.

    I didn't get any deadly weapons when I bought my car. :frown:
     
  4. Jul 17, 2009 #3
    How on earth would you conceal/carry an AK-47? It's a freakin assault rifle. I would think walking down the street with an AK-47 in hand would draw some unwanted attention.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2009
  5. Jul 17, 2009 #4

    turbo

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    Unfortunately, the people who want to ban guns are the ones who are the most illiterate on the subject. You CAN own an AK-47 in the US, but you have to buy a permit from the ATF, inform them where will store it, and inform them when you intend to take it off-premises. Those are the rules for the possession of class III weapons, including machine guns like the AK. You can buy cheaply-made cosmetic copies of the AK, produced in China, and marketed by SKS. They are not assault rifles.

    In fact, if you wanted to assault me, I would encourage you to use your SKS, and I will defend myself with my father's 40 year old Remington 742 semi-auto chambered for .30-06. It's a far more powerful and accurate weapon. The ban on "assault rifles" was certainly a misguided piece of legislation. It did not ban "assault rifles" at all - just semi-automatic look-alikes that had features like a baronet lug, flash suppressor, folding stock, etc. Stupid! Almost all of those guns are chambered for the wimpy .223 round.
     
  6. Jul 17, 2009 #5
    I don't think you need an FFL to own an AK-47 in the US. The law varies from state to state as far as those permits go but I'm pretty sure the ATF license only applies if you're a dealer.

    Or maybe I'm completely wrong and confusing myself. Maybe I'll just go look right now and wait to open my mouth next time.

    Edit: Nah, I'm right. :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2009
  7. Jul 17, 2009 #6

    turbo

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    No, you're not. An FFL is a license that all firearms dealers must have. That allows them to sell modern weapons, provided they keep their paperwork in order and do FBI checks on purchasers - which is why you have to fill out a form for every purchase. The FFL also allows the dealer to keep and sell Class III weapons - the only wrinkle is that the dealer has to pay the ATF an "occupational tax" of $500 every year. For you as an individual to own an AK-47, you not only have to buy it from a licensed FFL-holder who has paid the Class III occupational tax, but you also have to apply for and pay for a permit from the ATF. I guarantee you that this information is all accurate - I was in the business for a while.
     
  8. Jul 17, 2009 #7
    Then you was robbed. I have failed to get truly comparable data, but I think these are close enough to make the conclusion that the car is more deadly than the assault rifle.

    1. According to the FBI there were 14,831 homicides in 2007 in the US. This includes killing by means other than assault rifle, but does not include accidental assault rifle killings. Still I don't think there were 14,831 deaths by assault rifle in 2007. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_01.html" [Broken]

    2. According to the National Safety Council, there were 39,800 motor vehicle related deaths in 2008 in the US (I told you the data were not truly comparable). I assume this includes accidents as well as murders, so can't be directly compared, but is almost triple the number of murders. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/05/national-safety-council-says-2008-traffic-deaths-hit-record-low/"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  9. Jul 17, 2009 #8
    Well I'll say that you do seem more knowledgeable than I on the subject but I haven't been able to find the information for myself... probably because I'm not looking hard enough. Are you saying that the permit you buy from the ATF as an individual is something other than an FFL? I was under the impression that those permits were handled at the state level, as opposed to federal.

    Is there such a thing as a demilitarized AK-47 or are all semi-automatic AK-47s just knock-offs that look like assault rifles? Maybe that's where I'm confused.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2009
  10. Jul 17, 2009 #9

    turbo

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    The permit that an individual must buy from the ATF licenses ONE Class III weapon. It is not a blanket permission to start collecting machine guns, nor is it an FFL. If you apply for an FFL, go through the background checks, site-visit, etc, and are granted an FFL, you have just become a firearms dealer. You must keep meticulous records, and log in every single gun you buy, and log out every gun that you sell, including the contact information of the buyer, and a confirmation code given to you by the FBI background-check agent. Often, you call, give the agent the code assigned to your FFL, give the personal information of the buyer, and get immediate confirmation. If the agent needs to do a deeper check, (s)he will place a "hold" on the transfer. The agent then has 3 days to call back and allow or deny the transfer, and if they don't call back in that period, the transaction is allowed automatically.
     
  11. Jul 17, 2009 #10

    Ivan Seeking

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    It was interesting to note that in one of the countries with the lowest violent crime rates, Switzerland, people have "machine guns" [fully automatic weapons] in their homes. Is it any wonder that the crime rate is low?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  12. Jul 17, 2009 #11

    Evo

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    I *was* robbed.

    Ooh, but a truck AND an assault rifle...now you're talking.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  13. Jul 17, 2009 #12

    negitron

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    Yes:

    http://www.vtgunsmiths.com/arms/caniown.html
     
  14. Jul 17, 2009 #13
    Yeah, I got it. For some reason I just assumed that an FFL was all she wrote... I'm wondering why the federal government gets to decide who owns what where but I suppose that's the way everything is nowadays. Nothing like stomping all over the bill of rights by making owning a gun a pain in the neck.
     
  15. Jul 17, 2009 #14

    Ivan Seeking

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    That depends: Ford or Chevy?

    Ford drivers use BB guns.
     
  16. Jul 17, 2009 #15

    turbo

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    With really small barrels.
     
  17. Jul 17, 2009 #16

    turbo

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    And drivers of Ram-tough Dodges use Air-soft guns.
     
  18. Jul 17, 2009 #17
    Finally, a good reason why I live in Missouri! Om not takin' that there truck 'n gun deal 'till they bundle that with uh confederate flag ana case uh Bush beer! Yeehaw!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  19. Jul 17, 2009 #18
    turbo, this was an intelligent post until you referred to the .223 round as "wimpy." It is well known in the field of terminal ballistics that the low mass coupled with extremely high velocity of the .223 aka 5.56x45mm round makes it one of the most deadly rounds available due to its frangibility, which causes it to literally explode and create an 8-12 inch diameter hole in flesh. This gives it a very good chance of disrupting major organs and/or the CNS, much better than heftier rounds such as .5 or .3. The .5, in contrast, will simply bore a hole straight through, leaving you to bleed to death. The 7.62mm round is not frangible in it's modern form (although in the past, there used to be a similar round for AK's that was frangible), but even it tends to bore a larger hole than it's diameter would suggest because it tends to rotate 90 degrees after penetrating the flesh by about 2 inches.

    In addition, the 5.56 is far more effective at puncturing body armor than larger caliber rounds because it concentrates the force into a much smaller area...it is pretty much impervious to anything other than class III body armor, and will go through typical police body armor like it was butter. It may not be frangible after penetrating the body armor, but nothing is...and it's far more deadly to penetrate than to dent.

    Indeed, the only reason to choose a larger caliber round is to have increased momentum so as to be less susceptible to wind on longer shots. But the .223 is the most accurate round at ranges < 500m. The 6.8mm round is touted by some ballistic experts as being superior to 5.56 due to its slightly greater mass which makes it more accurate at ranges such as 800m+, but if you're talking sub 500m..you cannot beat the 5.56mm.
     
  20. Jul 17, 2009 #19

    Ivan Seeking

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    I am sure that this offer for an AK-47 is only for semi-auto weapons, and not fully automatic weapons. The certificate was only worth $250.
     
  21. Jul 17, 2009 #20

    turbo

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    For reference, I hunt big game with up-loaded .45-70s in a Ruger Model 1 single-shot. I have never shot a deer that took more than one or two steps (momentum, mostly). I would never hunt anything other than paper with a .223. It does not have the stopping power that I require to humanely kill an animal. The reason that the military standardized on the .223 is that troops could carry a LOT more rounds in the field than the heavier .308, partly on the "spray and pray" philosophy, AND the little guns were lots lighter. As you may know, troops in Viet Nam who had a choice (often point-men on patrol, like my cousin who got tapped for two tours on point) often opted for the BAR instead of the light .223s. Our European allies continue to use .308s (7.62) in the FN, H&K, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
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