Cain and sexual harassment

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DoggerDan

Main Question or Discussion Point

Cain and sexual "harassment"

The media feels it needs to give every item "equal time." Thus, a presidential sneeze gets 30 seconds, the same as bronchitis. I once had the "audacity" to tap a female subordinate on the shoulder to get her attention. Why did I have to touch her? She was wearing earphones on the job, which entailed monitoring and using radios, which she couldn't hear because she was listening to her iPod. Before I tapped her on her shoulder, I queried her twice, once in a normal tone of voice, the second rather loudly, much louder than the radios she was supposed to be monitoring. One guess as to her response to my directing her to ditch her iPod while on the job. Fortunately, two witnesses were right there and emphatically supported the truth, so her idiotic effort backfired before it began. The fact that she claimed sexual harassment despite the fact that two witnesses were right there underscores her idiocy. Perhaps she thought it might help keep her from being fired.

Nope.

As for Cain, no physical contact was involved, which tells me it's the liberal, ant-right media which is digging up this speck of dust and shouting it from the mountaintops. This behavior gives the media a VERY bad name, as well as anyone else who joins in the shouting.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2


Wow. Really? A sexual harassment suit because you tapped someone on the shoulder?
 
  • #3
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This has Karl Rove written all over it.
 
  • #4
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There's an old saying - the truth will set you free.

I think this will backfire on the Left - given their earlier defense of President Clinton through his scandals. EVERYBODY can see the hypocrisy in this matter - one more reason not to trust the main stream media.

On the other hand - if Cain is covering up any part of the story - he's done. People will understand and forgive a bumbling/fumbled but truthful response as he's embarrassed and uncomfortable with the topic - but they won't tolerate a lie.

Romney/Gingrich 2012 is looking like the ticket.
 
  • #5
russ_watters
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I don't know if the charge has merit, but he has so far botched the response effort.
 
  • #6
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  • #7
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As for Cain, no physical contact was involved, which tells me it's the liberal, ant-right media which is digging up this speck of dust and shouting it from the mountaintops. This behavior gives the media a VERY bad name, as well as anyone else who joins in the shouting.
Where did you hear no physical contact was involved? Do you know who the source was for this story or are you just blaming the usual suspects (the liberal, ant-right media)?
 
  • #8
AlephZero
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If he wants to be a politician but he can't handle thiis sort of stuff, he's failed. The truth or falsity of the allegations is as irrelevant as whether Obama is really a Martian who converted to Islam.
 
  • #9
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  • #10
skippy1729


Have Reverend Al and Jesse Jackson weighed in on this yet?
 
  • #11
phyzguy
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As for Cain, no physical contact was involved, which tells me it's the liberal, ant-right media which is digging up this speck of dust and shouting it from the mountaintops. This behavior gives the media a VERY bad name, as well as anyone else who joins in the shouting.
Ah, so you were there when this happened, I take it, otherwise there's no way you could know whether physical contact was involved or not. Please fill us in on what really happened.
 
  • #12
DavidSnider
Gold Member
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The guys on the right are correct, this will backfire on the left.

The right loves the Herman Cain controversy because it deflects attention away from Perry and Romney eating their own to the 'liberal media conspiracy' against a candidate who never had a chance against Romney anyway.
 
  • #13
mege


Wow. Really? A sexual harassment suit because you tapped someone on the shoulder?
I had a similar situation to the OP where me (a male) and a male subordinate came around the corner too quickly and collided. I instinctively put my hands on his arms and steadied eachother and guided him around me. He reported the contact to HR whom called me and wanted an explaination. I gave them myside of the story and never heard anything of it again. He was getting fired in a few days for repeated performance failures (he had a specific goal after several months of evaluations and was very far from meeting it), and I think he saw the writing on the wall so was doing any little thing to keep a foothold.

On Cain - I agree he's handling it very poorly. It's hard to reply to oddball accusations without drawing extra attention to them (but at the same time addressing them).
 
  • #14
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As for Cain, no physical contact was involved, which tells me it's the liberal, ant-right media which is digging up this speck of dust and shouting it from the mountaintops. This behavior gives the media a VERY bad name, as well as anyone else who joins in the shouting.
So you're trying to tell us that physical contact is required for it to be sexual harassment?
The EEOC defines sexual harassment as:
Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, or other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature when:
1. Submission to such conduct was made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment,
2. Submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual was used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individual, or
3. Such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment.
1. and 2. are called "quid pro quo" (Latin for "this for that" or "something for something"). They are essentially "sexual bribery", or promising of benefits, and "sexual coercion".
Type 3. known as "hostile work environment," is by far the most common form. This form is less clear cut and is more subjective.[6]
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment#United_States_2"

Given that the EEOC is the enforcement agency responsible for dealing with claims of unlawful sexual harassment, I'd say their definition supersedes yours.

Your argument appears to go like this:
"I touched a woman at work once and she cried foul. Because I wasn't sexually harassing her, someone else must touch a woman for it to be sexual harassment."

It's a complete non-sequitur. And that's ignoring the fact that you have no idea of any of the details of what actually happened.
 
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  • #15
DoggerDan


Wow. Really? A sexual harassment suit because you tapped someone on the shoulder?
Never made it past her complaint to HR. They got statements from the witnesses before showing them to her as they fired her.

On Cain - I agree he's handling it very poorly. It's hard to reply to oddball accusations without drawing extra attention to them (but at the same time addressing them).
Agreed. His best response should have been something along the lines of "it was investigated and dismissed." It's not the sort of topic one wants to spend hard-earned media time discussing at length.
 
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  • #16
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Might be making it worse now.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/11/cain-blames-perry-consultant-for-his-harassment-scandal/247799/

"As the scandal surrounding Herman Cain's alleged sexual harassment problem takes on a life of its own, the former pizza titan is hitting back with accusations that the story was a hit job from Rick Perry's campaign."
Which is very problematic for Cain - first he says he was unaware of any sexual harrassment lawsuit against him, then later says one of his former advisors leaked the story to Perry's camp - either way, he lied then or is doing so now (by lie, I mean lied about knowing if there was a suit, not that it actuall happened).
 
  • #17
DoggerDan


Which is very problematic for Cain - first he says he was unaware of any sexual harrassment lawsuit against him, then later says one of his former advisors leaked the story to Perry's camp - either way, he lied then or is doing so now (by lie, I mean lied about knowing if there was a suit, not that it actuall happened).
Your claim rests on the false assumption that human memories are perfect.

Mine's not. I've reviewed Cain's interviews on this subject, and they're smack dab in line with the way the human brain remembers relatively un-rememberable events.
 
  • #18
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At this point, there are 2 anonymous women another anonymous woman that has been cleared to speak but chooses not to and instead has a spokesperson lawyer?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/05/us/politics/cain-accuser-tells-of-harassment-pattern-lawyer-attests.html

""WASHINGTON — The lawyer for one of the women who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment said Friday that Mr. Cain engaged in a “series of inappropriate behaviors and unwanted advances” toward his client over two months in the 1990s, and he directly accused Mr. Cain, a Republican presidential candidate, of not telling the truth about his behavior.
The lawyer, Joel P. Bennett, who represents a former employee of Mr. Cain’s at the National Restaurant Association, said the accusations did not center on a single exchange that could be easily misinterpreted, which is how Mr. Cain has characterized it. Mr. Bennett said there were multiple episodes that led his client to file a formal complaint with the restaurant association.


If this woman is unwilling to testify (and unless this lawyer was a witness to events spread over a 2 month period) - perhaps Cain or (more appropriately) the National Restaurant Association should hold the lawyer's feet to the fire?

Actually, at this point there's no proof the lawyer actually has a client. The National Restaurant Association continues to suffer damages to it's reputation every time the lawyer speaks - something it sought to avoid when it settled nearly 20 years ago. The damages to the National Restaurant Association (actually a global enterprise) may be hundreds of millions of dollars.
 
  • #19
BobG
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There's an old saying - the truth will set you free.

I think this will backfire on the Left - given their earlier defense of President Clinton through his scandals. EVERYBODY can see the hypocrisy in this matter - one more reason not to trust the main stream media.

On the other hand - if Cain is covering up any part of the story - he's done. People will understand and forgive a bumbling/fumbled but truthful response as he's embarrassed and uncomfortable with the topic - but they won't tolerate a lie.

Romney/Gingrich 2012 is looking like the ticket.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/03/herman-cain-woman-45000-payout

Romney and Perry are the left, now?

In another setback, Cain's team backed off its claim that rival Rick Perry's team had originally planted the story in a dirty tricks operation. Cain had blamed a Perry strategist, Curt Anderson, as the source.

But Cain's team on Thursday was forced into a climbdown after Anderson denied it. Anderson said he had known nothing about the sexual allegations until he read about them on Politico.

He added that he continued to have enormous respect for Cain and would not speak negatively about him either on or off the record.

Mark Block, Cain's campaign chief, said: "Until we get all the facts, I'm just going to say that we accept what Mr Anderson has said, and we want to move on with the campaign."

Anderson had worked for Cain as a consultant in a failed bid for the Senate in 2004. Cain's team claim he was briefed at the time about the sex harrassment allegations.

Perry's team suggested that another rival, Mitt Romney, might have been the culprit, noting that one of Romney's big donors was in the restaurant industry.
To be fair, Cain has nothing to back up his suspicions about Perry and Romney except that people in their campaign staff could have known about the incidents. But thinking this was leaked by "the left" is equally unfounded at this point.
 
  • #20
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To be fair, Cain has nothing to back up his suspicions about Perry and Romney except that people in their campaign staff [b]could[/b] have known about the incidents. But thinking this was leaked by "the left" is equally unfounded at this point.[/QUOTE] I would consider this story slanted "Left" - chiding Conservatives. http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/05/opinion/martin-cain-race/ [I]" If you're Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Brent Bozell, Sean Hannity, and yes, even Herman Cain, you must feel pretty stupid for trying to fool the American people by blaming the reporting on sexual harassment complaints against the GOP presidential candidate on his race."[/I] Label this IMO. http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/11/04/msnbc-guest-cain-really-would-have-been-lynched-if-he-did-50s-or-60s This one too:(my favorite) my bold http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kyle-drennen/2011/11/02/chris-matthews-speculates-herman-cain-sexually-harassed-women-while-dr [I]"Appearing on Wednesday's NBC Today, [B]MSNBC Hardball host Chris Matthews urged Herman Cain to admit to sexually harassing women[/B] and even predicted what the Republican front-runner might say: "I think even if it's really bad he has to put the context to it. He has to say, 'It was an extraordinary night, I had too many drinks, I normally don't act like that, this is not me.'" The segment began with co-host Matt Lauer going after Cain for suggesting racial motivations behind the dredged up accusations: "He believes race is playing a role in this but he has no proof to support that. Is that a dangerous statement on his point?" Matthews replied: "I think he's struggling to come up with some rationale why he's not talking....At some point we're going to find out, maybe by the end of the week, what he actually did that caused all of this trouble. [B]He clearly did something wrong.[/B]" "[/I]
 
  • #21
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that's some bold speculation
 
  • #22
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Your claim rests on the false assumption that human memories are perfect.

Mine's not. I've reviewed Cain's interviews on this subject, and they're smack dab in line with the way the human brain remembers relatively un-rememberable events.
Perhaps so, but if I were to ever be accused of this, I wouldn't ever call it "un-rememberable".
 
  • #23
Hepth
Gold Member
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57319854-503544/sharon-bialek-accuses-cain-of-sexually-inappropriate-behavior/

This is someone new, who it appears never pursued it but felt the need now to talk about it.
While I find it abhorrent to try to extort sexual favors with a job offer, I don't find it surprising. While the moral content of our president is an external symbol of our national moral values, I really don't know if I'd refuse to vote for someone SOLELY on an event such as this. But a history of it would show his lack of respect for women, and that IS a huge problem.
 
  • #24
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57319854-503544/sharon-bialek-accuses-cain-of-sexually-inappropriate-behavior/

This is someone new, who it appears never pursued it but felt the need now to talk about it.
While I find it abhorrent to try to extort sexual favors with a job offer, I don't find it surprising. While the moral content of our president is an external symbol of our national moral values, I really don't know if I'd refuse to vote for someone SOLELY on an event such as this. But a history of it would show his lack of respect for women, and that IS a huge problem.
I don't know what to think of this - as a long time member of the NRA - I have lot's of questions.
1.) Why wait until now - Cain ran for Senate?
2.) How did Atty Gloria Allred find this woman?
3.) Why was David Axelrod's name connected to hers in Google searches?
4.) Why did she lose her job at NRA before she met Cain under these circumstances - what was going on inside NRA politics?
5.) Was she planning to leave her boyfriend (in NJ?) and move to DC - or did she live in Chicago where the Education foundation and trade shows are based?
 
  • #25
378
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I don't know what to think of this - as a long time member of the NRA - I have lot's of questions.
1.) Why wait until now - Cain ran for Senate?
2.) How did Atty Gloria Allred find this woman?
3.) Why was David Axelrod's name connected to hers in Google searches?
4.) Why did she lose her job at NRA before she met Cain under these circumstances - what was going on inside NRA politics?
5.) Was she planning to leave her boyfriend (in NJ?) and move to DC - or did she live in Chicago where the Education foundation and trade shows are based?
In addition she states she told her boyfriend and friend after the incident:
The lawyer said she had two sworn statements from Ms Bialek's then boyfriend, as well as a longstanding friend, who said she had told them about Mr Cain's alleged behaviour shortly afterwards.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15628860
So 6) Why her boyfriend and friend waited until now?
 

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