Calc 3/Thermo differentiation

In summary, Chet said that if you substitute in U=2RT-a/v for U in the answer, you get p=RT/(v-b)-a/v^2.
  • #1
kamu
11
0

Homework Statement


pFwiQ16.png


Homework Equations


au/as=T
au/av=p
S/R=ln[(v-b)(u+a/c)^2]

The Attempt at a Solution


1/T=1/au/as=as/au
S=ln[(v-b)(U+a/v)^2]R
as/au=[(v-b)2(U+a/v)(1)]R/[(v-b)(U+a/v)^2]=2R/(U+a/v)=1/T
T=(U+a/v)/2R
U=2RT-a/v
au/av=-P
au=-Pav
integrate au to get u=-pv+c

u=-pv+c=2RT-a/v
-p=2RT-a/v-C
p=a/v-2RT+c

7uylucs.png
uploaded my work in image format.

One of the main problem I have is that we haven't learned multivariable integration(or partial integration I don't know what it's called.)

edit:
more attempts
zQrph03.png


2M8nJNS.png
 
Last edited:
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  • #2
You found an expression for U as a function of V, and you're told ##P = -\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}##. Why are you integrating? Just differentiate U with respect to V to find the pressure.
 
  • #3
vela said:
You found an expression for U as a function of V, and you're told ##P = -\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}##. Why are you integrating? Just differentiate U with respect to V to find the pressure.
Hi vela, I need to express pressure as a function of temperature and volume. I need to get both T and V in the expression. Which is the problem I'm having.

taking the au/av would give me a/v^2
 
  • #4
kBIawEe.png

Another attempt.
 
  • #5
You already correctly obtained ##\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial S}\right)_V=T=\frac{(U+\frac{a}{V})}{2R}##. Now please show us what you get for ##\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}\right)_S=-P##. You will need to combine the two relationships.

Chet
 
  • #6
Chestermiller said:
You already correctly obtained ##\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial S}\right)_V=T=\frac{(U+\frac{a}{V})}{2R}##. Now please show us what you get for ##\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}\right)_S=-P##. You will need to combine the two relationships.

Chet
Hey Chet. In my previous posts I listed how I derived au/av from the chain rule in implicit differentiation. They might not be correct but
au/av=e^(S/R) (-2/(u+a/v))^3 is what I got for fourth attempt

au/av= 2R[((u+a/v)(-a/v^2)]/[(v-b)(u+a/v)^2]/[2R((v-b)(u+a/v))/((v-b)(u+a/v)^2)] is what I got for my second attempt

au/av=-2R/(v-b)(u+a/v)(v^2)/[(2R/(u+a/v))+1/T] is what I got on the third attempt

my derivation are all in the photos.(Not that I think they are right :(. So far unfortunately only my last attempt actually gave me a expression with T in it, T always somehow cancels out in the end in other attempts.
 
  • #7
I took a simpler/different approach

28OftM6.png
the answer looks appropriate but I'm not sure if I messed up somewhere.
 
  • #8
I get:
[tex]\frac{S}{R}=ln(V-b)+2ln(U+\frac{a}{V})[/tex]
So,
[tex]\frac{dS}{R}=\frac{dV}{V-b}+\frac{2}{(U+\frac{a}{V})}(dU-\frac{a}{V^2}dV)[/tex]
At constant S, this becomes:
[tex]0=(\frac{1}{V-b}-\frac{2a/V^2}{(U+\frac{a}{V})})dV
+\frac{2}{(U+\frac{a}{V})}dU[/tex]
Solving for ##\partial U/\partial V## gives:
[tex]\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}\right)_S=-\frac{(U+a/V)}{2(V-b)}+a/V^2=-P[/tex]
Does this match any of the results from your attempts?

Chet
 
  • #9
Chestermiller said:
I get:
[tex]\frac{S}{R}=ln(V-b)+2ln(U+\frac{a}{V})[/tex]
So,
[tex]\frac{dS}{R}=\frac{dV}{V-b}+\frac{2}{(U+\frac{a}{V})}(dU-\frac{a}{V^2}dV)[/tex]
At constant S, this becomes:
[tex]0=(\frac{1}{V-b}-\frac{2a/V^2}{(U+\frac{a}{V})})dV
+\frac{2}{(U+\frac{a}{V})}dU[/tex]
Solving for ##\partial U/\partial V## gives:
[tex]\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}\right)_S=-\frac{(U+a/V)}{2(V-b)}+a/V^2=-P[/tex]
Does this match any of the results from your attempts?

Chet
Hi Chet, yes it matches the results from my last attempt. If I sub in U=2RT-a/v for U in your answer I would get p=RT/(v-b)-a/v^2

[tex]\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}\right)_S=-\frac{(2RT-a/v+a/V)}{2(V-b)}+a/V^2=-P[/tex]

[tex]\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial V}\right)_S=\frac{(RT)}{(V-b)}-a/V^2=P[/tex]
 
  • #10
I forgot to mention. Thank you for the help Chet! I really appreciate it.
 

1. What is the difference between Calc 3 and Thermo differentiation?

Calc 3, also known as multivariable calculus, involves differentiation and integration in multiple variables. Thermo differentiation, on the other hand, is a mathematical technique used in thermodynamics to calculate changes in a system's properties with respect to temperature and other variables.

2. How is differentiation used in thermodynamics?

Differentiation is used in thermodynamics to calculate changes in a system's properties, such as internal energy, enthalpy, and entropy, with respect to temperature and other variables. This allows us to understand how a system behaves under different conditions.

3. What is partial differentiation and when is it used?

Partial differentiation is the process of differentiating a function with respect to one of its variables while holding all other variables constant. It is used in multivariable calculus and thermodynamics to calculate the rate of change of a function with respect to one variable at a specific point.

4. How do you calculate the total differential in thermodynamics?

The total differential is calculated using the chain rule in multivariable calculus. It involves taking the partial derivatives of a function with respect to each variable and multiplying them by the corresponding differentials. In thermodynamics, the total differential is used to calculate small changes in a system's properties.

5. What are some real-life applications of Calc 3/Thermo differentiation?

Calc 3/Thermo differentiation is used in various fields, such as engineering, physics, chemistry, and economics. Some real-life applications include predicting the behavior of chemical reactions, analyzing heat transfer in engineering systems, and understanding the thermodynamics of power plants and refrigeration systems.

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