Can a conspiracy theorist assert his claims without lying?

  • Thread starter Pattonias
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  • #26
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What was that caused by again? In all honesty I don't care if 9/11 was a conspiracy or not because im not the one who has to deal with it daily as a fact. What I do care about is the fact that I cant make a friend who wont in some way stab me in the back when I have been kicked down already.

Oh and to that one guys post about global warming... Every thing is a conspiracy when money is involved.
 
  • #27
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friend who wont in some way stab me in the back when I have been kicked down already.
Well I'm sure if you made friends in real life it would be much better.

Freeman you should probably delete your post, russ already gave a warning about discussing the 9/11 conspiracy here (and it goes both ways you shouldn't be responding to his post).
 
  • #28
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"Well I'm sure if you made friends in real life it would be much better."

Did I say something to upset you sorry! ?
 
  • #29
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Perhaps it was the success of the space program - that had been theorized and wished for, for many years - people on the moon, flights to Mars .... but now, all to often, it appears that some believe that to make something real, all you have to do is speak it.

I can think of one 'journalist' who has announced the death of the Ayatollah of Iran at least three times in my memory (Khomeni is still alive and will as far as is reported today) another that, every six months, says that in only 6 months Iraq will show improvement - then there are the religious journalists that keep reporting that belief in Darwin and his theories is a dying proposition - that has been going on for 100 year now. If you want it badly enough, just say it and it will be so.

Look at films - little 106 lb women frequently dispose of linebacker sized opponets in one stoke, gunfighters make shots with pistols that would be impossible with rifles and Kung Fu people run up walls and defie gravity with abandon.

So, if you want Obama to be from Africa, say so and it will be so: Muslims are too dumb to bring down the WTC, so it must be a conspiracy: cherry pick a few 'facts' and take them out of context, keep repeating them a la Limbaugh, and then get someone like Sarah Pailin to talk about death panels and bingo - they become real.

Are these peope lying? I do not think so. Are they palying on one the outskirts of veracity and do they know it - certainly. But if they can still get paid by EXXON for denying climate change, or by big tobacco to say smoking is good for you, or tie into an anger over several years of bad government - without feeling guilty that you voted the sucker in twice, there you go ... it is all a big conspiracy.
 
  • #30
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Whether or not one is lying has to do with what the actual truth is or what the person really believes, depending on your interpretation. This sounds a lot like the philosophical discussion of http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/miracles/" [Broken] though.

Miracles are events that do not behave causally like any other events. They are not reproducible. According to http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/miracles/#Hum", we should not believe that such events occur because we must assume that the laws of nature are constant to make sense of the world. Conspiracy theories may often include such singularly observed events, such as alien sightings. They are similar also in that if we treat the creation of these theories as events, they are not corroborated by the opposing and accepted theories the rest of society comes to accept.

There is a thin line, though, because it is not enough that something be unlikely given physical law for it to be considered a miracle - it must actually be impossible. The line is vague here because we can't deductively prove that anything is impossible or not-reproducible in science.

I believe it is commonly accepted in philosophy that one is not justified in believing in miracles, or, noting the limits of science, the extremely unlikely. Not unless the extremely unlikely event can be reproduced experimentally.

Having said that, philosophers of science like http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/feyerabend/" [Broken] may have a different view on the subject. After all, no new theories would ever be developed unless some crackpot threw out established science and proposed something that current theory says is impossible. These sorts of crackpot physics theories, however, are different in many ways than theories about UFOs etc.

Obviously one is not justified in believing a conclusion that is contradicted by evidence either - that's just logic 101.
 
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