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Can some somebody explain the Defined Chaose for me?

  1. Nov 22, 2004 #1
    Can some somebody explain the "Defined Chaose" for me?!!!

    i read from few days a journal for the professor Mohamed el Nasha'i(Eygptian living in England scientist) inwhich he enterd some modifications to the normal chaose theory and named it "the defiend chaose..
    I found many articles on the net talking about his new theory_since it was a very close atempt to the unified theory_that he was going to take noble Prize for it!!!

    but really, i didnt understand anything!!
    can somebody explain it for me?!!
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 22, 2004 #2


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    Never heard of it. But swede as I am, I have to correct one thing: It's called the "Nobel Prize". (After a guy named Alfred Nobel...)
    Sorry for being mr Perfect... :tongue2:
  4. Nov 22, 2004 #3


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    You ain't Mr.Perfect.You're probably Swede (not swede) and you should have told the guy that Alfred Nobel invented dynamite...That's why he got famous,rich and could afford to donate money for scientifical purposes...
  5. Nov 22, 2004 #4
    Dark Knight, can you give us the URLs of those websites? Since it would be easier to understand what you are talking about here. I've never heard of it, too.

  6. Nov 22, 2004 #5


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    Ouch, seem to never learn when there should be capital letters... :smile:

    I see you know your swedish history... :wink:
  7. Nov 22, 2004 #6
    While we're talking about the Nobel Price and Swedish history, he evented dynamite to help society (like clear roads, etc...) and after the government started using it to hurt people the family used some of their money to fund the Nobel Peace Price :smile: . At least, that's how the story goes...

    The only place I've ever hard of "Defined chaose" is in sci fi books, but that's not to say there isin't some new theory called that.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2004
  8. Nov 23, 2004 #7


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  9. Nov 23, 2004 #8
  10. Nov 23, 2004 #9
  11. Nov 24, 2004 #10
    where are you guys?!!!
  12. Nov 27, 2004 #11
    did you forget me!!!
  13. Nov 27, 2004 #12
    Defined chaos sounds like probability to me... Next time I'll read the links BEFORE I try to answer the question. :tongue2:
  14. Nov 27, 2004 #13


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    The guy is has an engineering education, and is essentially a self taught physicist. I would take his claims with a grain of salt until the established Physics community has digested it. If the established physics community does not want to deal with it, it may well be because it contains obvious errors.
  15. Nov 28, 2004 #14
    Dear (Egyptian, I guess) Dark Knight
    First of all I am most grateful to you for finding something about Prof. Mohamed-Saladdin El Naschie the Egyptian great physicist. As I suffered from not knowing his english spelled name to search for his work. However I was the most luckiest one among my colleagues at Faculty of Engineering-Ain Shams University to attend a public lecture he gave at Cairo University the Xmas before the last (and in many places worldwide some many times before that).
    Frankly I did not understand much of his theory because as I said it was a public lecture and not too much details was given, but I will try to recall some of what he said using my humble words:
    - Prof. El Naschie works in a field called "deterministic chaos" that, according to my limited information, is concerned with putting the chaos of any physical phenomenon into physical laws. As Prof. El Naschie says: "If it is impossible to predict some physical behavior because it is chaotic then there MUST be some physical law that says so." An example that he demonstrated at the lecture is the unknown swinging of a pendulum if you start with the mass upside and the pivot point down!
    - Prof. El Naschie started (and closed) the lecture with some donut shape that he called the closed universe Hamiltonian that he believes to be the vortex of itself unlike the other Hamiltonians that have a vortex point to sink within. This donut was cut to show many other similar tube shapes that should represent the more sophisticated or simplified space that we live in.
    - Prof. El Naschie used the theory of fractals and the number theory (where he gives a big role to the golden ratio of Fibonacci that is the infinite fraction of 1 over [1 plus 1 [over 1 plus 1 [ ... ]]]) to postulate that the universe has infinite number of dimensions (with the time as any other dimension) while they reduce to the commonly known three and the foregoing time only on the macroscopic scale. On the very microscopic scale (probably Planck's length scale) all the dimensions curl, the time jumps backward and forward and the same object may have different sizes moving from one "mass center to another" so that not the space is just curved but also the objects.
    - Using the infinite number of dimensions Prof. El Naschie could unify the five (four if electromagnetic is one) forces of nature when the interaction dimensions are of the Planck scale even the gravitational force coincide with the intersection point of the other four forces using previous theories such as the Standard Model of Particles.
    - Prof. El Naschie used his theory and from the first principles of the infinite number of dimensions he could, as he scientifically claims, calculate the mass spectrum of the subatomic particles.
    This achievement alone was thought to be enough to gain him the "Nobel Prize" in Physics, yet he is a Muslim Arabic Egyptian scientist no matter if he lived in US or worked as Physics Prof. at UK. ***I hope I am wrong cuase I think Prof. El Naschie deserves the celebration of his achievement but I do not think the Prize will add to his entity*** Prof. El Naschie himself became a great Professor he is on the ideas and the teaching of his Jewish Professor that he akacknowledgesnd shows his photo everywhere he gives that lecture!
    Although I am a BIG admirer of Prof. El Naschie and his marvelous work and ideas I believe there is simpler and more realistic vision of the five forces and the universe that another engineer this time electromagnetic engineer that I was honored to be his instructor and now his friend and physics student, and unlike Prof. El Naschie he is a really self-taught physicist who has a God gifted inspiration that with one property of the single pair of particles (electron and positron) gave the unification of all the nature forces. This engineer is named Amir Mors the founder of the Unity theory. Hold your breathes till you get to know who of the two interpreted the universe better.
  16. Nov 28, 2004 #15
    I guess it 's finally the time to get to know the man's work after knowing the man himself
    Good Luck for you and me
  17. Nov 28, 2004 #16
    Dear sifeddin, im too glad for seeing a post by an eygptian.....

    How did you guess that im eygptian?!!!!

    im a student at Faculty of Engineering-Cairo University

    i really believe in prof. El.Nashaie...

    i dont see any problems for him to be an engineer!!!

    he made his higher studies in physics fields....

    if you dont think he is qualified for introducing new theory, i think you should ask yourself why is he a prof. in many famous universities in the world (such as Cambridge University, where he is a prof. in the natural physics departement).

    i want to say something, that a winner of Nobel prize this year said in his word that prof. El. Nashaie deserves the prize more than him!!!

    dear sifeddin, could you please type u r e-mail?!!! :smile:

    thanks for the details..
  18. Nov 28, 2004 #17


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    Interesting. El Naschie has co-authored one paper in arxix. A second paper was withdrawn. Both note a revision where "The incorrect affiliation of M. S. El Naschie was removed". It turns out El Naschie had illicitly claimed affiliation with DAMTP (Cambridge), a quite serious transgression in academic circles. Further compounding matters. His co-author, Carlos Castro, who is quite the controversial character [he and Tony Smith are apparently pals], has not been published in arxix since then and asserts he has been blacklisted. I might add that El Naschie's preferred publication source appears to be 'the Journal of Chaos, Solitons and Fractals', of which he is Chief Editor. Anyways, this is the story as related by Mr. Castro. I certainly wouldn't leap to any conclusions on that basis, I merely thought it might be of interest.
  19. Dec 15, 2004 #18
    The man returned home. He is an Emeritus Prof. at the Astrophysics Dept. of Fac. of Science, Cairo Univ. a year or so ago among other positions, as this interview http://www.esi-topics.com/erf/2004/october04-MohamedElNaschie.html introduces him:
    Authors: El Naschie, MS
    Journal: CHAOS SOLITON FRACTAL, 19: (1) 209-236, JAN 2004
    POB 272, Surrey, England.
    Univ Brussels, Solvay Inst, Brussels, Belgium.
    Cairo Univ, Fac Sci, Dept Astrophys, Cairo, Egypt.
    Univ Surrey, Dept Math, Sch Elect & Comp Sci, Guildford GU2 5XH, Surrey, England.
    And if you follow the story elsewhere http://www.archivefreedom.org/freedom/Cyberia.pdf (or through Google other than arxix (actually it is some related http site to the original http://arxiv.org) you may notice that Dr. Carlos Castro has a struggle with arxiv.org because of their check policy not with El Naschie himself who has the right for privacy and the choice of where he should be cited (paper-wise and human-wise.)
    This is to whom it may concern and not clear the name of Prof. El Naschie of nothing he done.

    Dark Knight:
    I tried to message you here but I could not. You may drop me PM (Private Message) on www.edaboard.com on my account having the same name and I will gladly give you my e-mail address. I wish you can see this before the final exams take you away from the forum.
  20. Dec 15, 2004 #19
    Engineer Seifledeen,

    You know as I know that nothing is clear in Amr Morsi's theory, except that he claims that he did so and so. No hard proofs to establish what he claims. Besides you can'y say that he is a selft taught physicist because he knows very little about physics and mathematics, at least not beyond an undergraduate engineering background. He knows very little compared to somebody with an undergradute physics background. It is unfair to him and to us to say that he did everything that there is to do and the stuff about being honoured; please!!!!!!!!!
  21. Dec 15, 2004 #20
    Dark Knight,

    How did you know that a winner of the nobel prize this year said the ElNaschie deserves the prize? Was it in his nobel lecture? Tell me where, I'd like to know please.
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