Can we speak with higher beings of existance?

[Alan J.]

Hello. I'm a fairly new physics student that goes to no school but is rather sitting at home and self learning this subject. I'm eager to learn more and any feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

My theory is that if a higher being existed that it would be scientifically impossible to converse with said being. Let's see if i can explain.

Ok for this instance, let's pretend that we humans live in a 2d universe and the higher being in a 3rd demension. If the higher being was indeed observing us in an "kid with a magnifying glass" fashion. And in the 2d universe sound travels in a wave along the 2d demension and does not transcend into the 3rd demension as such are the rules of the 2nd demension which sound could only travel forward, backward, side to side. Then theoretically the higher being could not hear us because the sound would not be audible to the 3rd demension because sound could not travel up nor down. Thus people claiming to have spoken with a higher power are frauds <edit - MIH>.

Unless of course they spoke through telekenetics in which case this would be an entire other conversation.

If there is flaw in my logic please let me know asap.

Thanks

 

[Mr. Bill]

Hey Alan.

I think that you may be on to something with your theory. However, in this case I think that there may be a flaw with your 2d/3d argument. Let me explain.

If we imagine the 2d world as the x-y plane in a given space, we can imagine 3d world consisting of the same x-y plane with the z-axis added to give the 3rd dimension.

Now, let's say you have a sound wave (which is actually not a pure 2d wave, given that realistically sound travels as a sort of "pressure" wave) traveling along the x-y plane in the traditional sinusoidal fashion. Let's also say that a 3rd dimensional being (we'll call him Joe) is moving along the z-axis toward the x-y plane. Once Joe's ear crosses the x-y plane he'll be able to detect/hear the 2d sound wave. Likewise, Joe can say something once his mouth crosses the x-y plane and those people in the 2d space should be able to hear what Joe is saying.

I see what you are trying to say with this argument, however you may want to use a better example.

On another note, you may want to explore the possibility that if there is a being of higher existence, that it may not be limited to it's own dimension. That is to say that this being will be able to interact with the other 'lower' dimensions (as we'll call them for now) and thus still be able to communicate with beings in these lower dimensions. Using the previous example, Joe was able to interact with the 2d world.

Anyway, that's the input I have. Maybe I'm way off, or maybe I helped.

 

[Alan J.]

That's the thing... I believe Joe would be limited to his own demension and if not then he could not physically enter the 2nd demension. Same with a piece of paper with a doodle of stick figures. We can observe the stick figures but we cannot go into the x y plane to interact with figures. However as being a 3rd demension entity we can minipulate the 2nd demension by adding or removing stick figures or changing their environment. My theory does not disprove a higher being exists. Just meerly that 2nd demension being could not converse with the 3rd demension and vice vesa.

 

[Mr. Bill]

I'm not sure you can say that Joe can't 'enter' the 2nd dimension. Joe already exists as part of the 2nd dimension, he just has the added bonus of being able to also exist in the 3rd dimension.

Isolating Joe to the 3rd dimension would make Joe a 1d entity and therefore a 'lesser' being than the 2d beings. I think we could then say that the 3rd dimension would not exist without the basis of the 1st and 2nd dimensions. I'm not sure it's possible to completely isolate/separate multiple dimensions from each other.

In conclusion, I would say that you are right, 2d beings can't communicate with Joe. However, Joe can receive and send communications to the 2d beings as he already exists as part of that 2d space.

 

[Alan J.]

I'm not sure you can say that Joe can't 'enter' the 2nd dimension. Joe already exists as part of the 2nd dimension, he just has the added bonus of being able to also exist in the 3rd dimension.

Isolating Joe to the 3rd dimension would make Joe a 1d entity and therefore a 'lesser' being than the 2d beings. I think we could then say that the 3rd dimension would not exist without the basis of the 1st and 2nd dimensions. I'm not sure it's possible to completely isolate/separate multiple dimensions from each other.

In conclusion, I would say that you are right, 2d beings can't communicate with Joe. However, Joe can receive and send communications to the 2d beings as he already exists as part of that 2d space.

In your mindset, you view dimensions as being piled onto and into each other as a rule. If this were true then the 2nd stick figures could in FACT see a part of Joe in their demension though never fully grasping what JOE is because they cannot see the entire being as being only 2nd demension creatures. For example the 2nd demension being may only see "--" as Joe but in fact is .

 

[Gokul43201]

Ok for this instance, let's pretend that we humans live in a 2d universe and the higher being in a 3rd demension. If the higher being was indeed observing us in an "kid with a magnifying glass" fashion. And in the 2d universe sound travels in a wave along the 2d demension and does not transcend into the 3rd demension as such are the rules of the 2nd demension which sound could only travel forward, backward, side to side. Then theoretically the higher being could not hear us because the sound would not be audible to the 3rd demension because sound could not travel up nor down. Thus people claiming to have spoken with a higher power are frauds

If there is flaw in my logic please let me know asap.

Yes, there's a huge problem with your "logic". Your premise is unfounded.

This is exactly like saying: "Let's pretend there are only even numbers; thus anyone claiming there are odd numbers is a fraud."

 

[Alan J.]

Yes, there's a huge problem with your "logic". Your premise is unfounded.

This is exactly like saying: "Let's pretend there are only even numbers; thus anyone claiming there are odd numbers is a fraud."

Then may we hear an argument for the ability to communicate with higher beings instead of just flaming on a student who has not yet learned all that you appear to know?

 

[Mr. Bill]

I believe that your lack of understanding of the general theory of dimensions is going to make it impossible for this discussion to progress.

I think that you are making some excellent points and that in your own theory are correct. However I think that this topic doesn't have as simple of an answer as this.

 

[Alan J.]

Fair enough

 

[Gokul43201]

Then may we hear an argument for the ability to communicate with higher beings instead of just flaming on a student who has not yet learned all that you appear to know?

I did not intend any "flaming". All I did was point out that the logic was erroneous. This does not mean I have an argument for "an ability to communicate with higher beings" - the existence of which is not a necessary logical outcome of your argument being incorrect.

My own opinion is that most people that do claim communication with a "higher being" are, in fact, frauds. The rest are simply deluded. But that is not really much of a philosophical point.

 

[Math Is Hard]

If there is flaw in my logic please let me know asap.

You posted an open call for criticism of your argument. If you cannot take negative feedback, which is only given in the spirit of helpfulness, then it is pointless to even continue with this thread. It just wastes the time of our members.