Can you answer this unanswerable question?

  • Thread starter WingZero
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  • #51
FZ+
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Well, the evidence inside me tells me that you are wrong. See?

To point at illusionary "evidence" hidden in unreachable places, and conveniently indistinguishible from imagination, is logically rather hard to consider credible.
 
  • #52
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where does proof take place? does it take place in the experiement your doing or the journal you're reading (ie outside you) or does it take place inside when you reach that pivotal moment when you go from not being convinced to being convinced?
 
  • #53
Visitor
Who made God?

The queston makes 2 assumptions, both of which may be false. First assumption is the existance of God, something that is still debated on many other worlds, not just this self centered mudball. The second assumption is that he had to be made. Did anyone make that diamond crystal on you girlfriend's finger? If God exists, he did not necessarily have to be made by another higher being.
 
  • #54
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Originally posted by FZ+
Well, the evidence inside me tells me that you are wrong. See?

To point at illusionary "evidence" hidden in unreachable places, and conveniently indistinguishible from imagination, is logically rather hard to consider credible.
Oh, you admit to something being inside there then?

So, how does that something inside you go about determining whether anything is correct? In other words how do you know that science is correct? Do you just assume that it is?

And yet what if you could see just as clearly about your own internal observations as science does about its empirical data? What are you to rely upon then?
 
  • #55
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Originally posted by Visitor
Who made God?

The queston makes 2 assumptions, both of which may be false. First assumption is the existance of God, something that is still debated on many other worlds, not just this self centered mudball. The second assumption is that he had to be made. Did anyone make that diamond crystal on you girlfriend's finger? If God exists, he did not necessarily have to be made by another higher being.
So, would you care to address how the universe can exist without a Primal Cause? :wink:

Did you know that it's possible for Eternity to exist without time?
 
  • #56
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
where does proof take place? does it take place in the experiement your doing or the journal you're reading (ie outside you) or does it take place inside when you reach that pivotal moment when you go from not being convinced to being convinced?
Yes, what exactly is it that's being convinced here? :wink:
 
  • #57
FZ+
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In other words how do you know that science is correct?
I don't. Science is an attitude, or a process. Is eating ice cream "correct"? In science, judgement is made by combining the totality of evidence to highlight the most likely, and least untrue theory.

And yet what if you could see just as clearly about your own internal observations as science does about its empirical data?
What if God exists? Then God would exist, would he not? This hypothetical question does not seem useful.

Science does not assume the clear objectivity of the data. Things are weighed in favour of more reliable ones, yes, but scientific debate is an attempt to play off the subjective and fuzzy elements against each other. Your "internal observations" have been devised to avoid any assessment of reliability, to avoid rational debate. That is currently their only distinguishing property, and so your internal observations are useless.
 
  • #58
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Originally posted by FZ+

I don't. Science is an attitude, or a process. Is eating ice cream "correct"? In science, judgement is made by combining the totality of evidence to highlight the most likely, and least untrue theory.

What if God exists? Then God would exist, would he not? This hypothetical question does not seem useful.

Science does not assume the clear objectivity of the data. Things are weighed in favour of more reliable ones, yes, but scientific debate is an attempt to play off the subjective and fuzzy elements against each other. Your "internal observations" have been devised to avoid any assessment of reliability, to avoid rational debate. That is currently their only distinguishing property, and so your internal observations are useless.
What is so irrational to say that in order for us to observe the immaterial (on an individual basis) we have to have a piece of the that in ourselves ... "a soul" in other words? As a matter-of-fact that's the most rational thing one can possibly say if, in fact God does exist. Or else how would we know?

Yep, God gave us big brains and the last thing we "know" is how to use them ...
 
  • #59
FZ+
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What is so irrational to say that in order for us to observe the immaterial
Being observed <=> whatever is observed is material
we have to have a piece of the that in ourselves ... "a soul" in other words?
That it does not follow. Observing radioactivity requires a geiger counter, not an internal radioactive source. (Which would be bad for your health) It is something pulled out of the air, without any philosophical usefulness.
As a matter-of-fact that's the most rational thing one can possibly say if, in fact God does exist.
But we don't. And God may not exist. And so this argument doesn't mean anything.
 
  • #60
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For clarify in your question, "Who made God?" please define what God is.
 
  • #61
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Originally posted by hedons
For clarify in your question, "Who made God?" please define what God is.

That seems like quite a difficult problem to describe something outside of our physical reality.
 
  • #62
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Originally posted by b11ngoo
God made God. O_O

God is wisdom. God made wisdom. The bible says God first made wisdom. Then his name is translated wisdom. So God says he first made himself. Then the Woman called Wisdom was made.

So who made God ? God himself made himself. Read my T.o.E. Thread I made. It describes digital creation. And describes God as well I believe. Since he said he made himself.

Here's the thread.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15882

Who made you ? Did you make you yet ?

I agree that something can be created from nothing. But there is no factual evidence that something that does not exist can create itself so to speak. We know that the void of space can create particles and it has been conjectured that perhaps the energy from the BB was created in this way, however, the big bang energy did not "create itself" if the theory is correct, it was created by quantum fluctuations of space.

Any book or article proclaiming to describe a god is the creation of man and none other.
 
  • #63
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Originally posted by b11ngoo
Yes. I see.

Ok. How about if... the nature of the clock that started with the big bang, was the nature of God.

So. If this nature did not begin, no big bang. There is no God yet.

But he exists even then. Since the big bang clock brings him. The act of his creation is motion of the clock beginning. Zero clock time is God. Right ?

Because he is the mighty one(God), that comes from the beginning of time.

Is it so hard to believe a big bang clock may begin a mighty intelligence ?

Is God so different from A.I to a clock ? How can the clock respect A.I. and not God ?

Look at my link I gave. It describes A.I.

You've got it wrong, the big bang created the universe, it did not create god. God wasn't created until some 10 billion years(give or take a few billion) when man evolved on earth and created the concept of god to explain things that he could not explain otherwise.

As far as the other stuff you are saying, the only thing I can say in return is:
What the hell are you talking about?
 
  • #64
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what's your irrefutable proof for that statement?
 
  • #65
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b11ngoo is the one that said the BB created god, so its up to him to prove it.

Making a unfalsiable claim, then demanding another to prove it's wrong else your right, is downright stupid. I think it is pretty obvious where the burden of proof lays here.

I could just as easily claim that my gym shorts are the creator of the universe, and they use their immense power to simply look like a plain pair of gym shorts. Prove me wrong!
 
  • #66
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when someone claims that man created God then it sounds to me like the burden of proof is on them. until i see a proof, it's not something i will believe or disbelieve.
 
  • #67
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
when someone claims that man created God then it sounds to me like the burden of proof is on them. until i see a proof, it's not something i will believe or disbelieve.

Because by definition, a idea must originate from a human. The concept of a god is a idea, therefore it is created by man.
 
  • #68
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was the idea of x-rays created or discovered?
 
  • #69
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
was the idea of x-rays created or discovered?

created by humans of course.
 
  • #70
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and is that when x-rays began to exist?
 
  • #71
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
and is that when x-rays began to exist?

But were not talking about x-rays.
 
  • #72
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that's very convienient of you to now, rather than before, profess that there is no comparison. why change your mind about how relevant x-rays are now rather than before when i originally asked about them?
 
  • #73
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
that's very convienient of you to now, rather than before, profess that there is no comparison. why change your mind about how relevant x-rays are now rather than before when i originally asked about them?

because we weren't and aren't talking about x-rays. We are talking about the IDEA of x-rays
 
  • #74
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is your claim that man created God or created the idea of God?
 
  • #75
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Originally posted by phoenixthoth
is your claim that man created God or created the idea of God?

The idea of god.
 

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