Car Modification: Using your battery to prevent rust

  • Thread starter paradoxlost
  • Start date
  • Tags
    Battery
  • #1
paradoxlost
25
4
TL;DR Summary
using your battery to prevent rust
Hypothetically speaking, if you wanted to prevent rust on your car frame, how would you wire your battery to your frame?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
  • #2
paradoxlost said:
TL;DR Summary: using your battery to prevent rust
The efficacy of electronic rust protection for cars is controversial. For example, from: https://www.autotrainingcentre.com/blog/truth-electronic-rust-protection/
Electronic rust protection has received mixed reviews from customers. While many will enthuse about its capabilities, there seem to be an equal (if not larger) segment who claim the process is overpriced and ineffective. While rustproofing your vehicle is definitely encouraged, sprays and waxes are often the more recommended options, and have been proven to work over the years. Experts pursuing automotive careers do not believe there is substantial evidence regarding the efficiency of an electronic rustproofing system, or that it works better than other options like waxes.
The technology itself is based on the models used on the bottom of boats. In addition to other arguments, many say that electronic rust protection for cars therefore only truly works when fully submerged in water. There are to date no official reports which show that cars with electronic rust proofing have less corrosion than they would without the device.
 
  • #3
So how are they doing it where it doesn't work? and why wouldn't it work?
 
  • #4
paradoxlost said:
So how are they doing it where it doesn't work? and why wouldn't it work?
Google "boat cathodic protection" for many references to marine rust protection systems. An essential element of these systems is the flow of currents in the water surrounding the boat hull. No analogous currents flow in the atmosphere around an automobile, hence the skepticism expressed in post #2.
 
  • #5
so your saying you'd have to install some sort of secondary system that provides a steady flow of electrons?
 
  • #6
paradoxlost said:
so your saying you'd have to install some sort of secondary system that provides a steady flow of electrons?
Yes, but I believe that secondary system would have to supply current broadly over the surface areas of the car frame and body that you want to protect (just like water does for a boat hull), not just through, say, discrete wires connected to isolated points on the metal.
 
  • #7
what if you didn't do on the undercarriage and you used like graphene sheets above the frame, with maybe some sort of contact on the undercarriage?
 
  • #8
paradoxlost said:
what if you didn't do on the undercarriage and you used like graphene sheets above the frame, with maybe some sort of contact on the undercarriage?
Well, you'd have to map or model the current flows through the sheets to make sure the distribution provides wide coverage. And if you're going to all the effort to cover the vulnerable frame surfaces with close-fitting graphene, why not instead just apply standard, proven rust-inhibiting coatings like paints, polymers, oils, waxes, etc. that don't require an additional electronic system?
 
  • #9
Idk, cause I can?


Or because electromagnetic fields don't create particulate pollution.
 
  • #10
paradoxlost said:
Idk, cause I can?
Or, you could drive your car in a lake....
 
  • Haha
Likes Tom.G and Vanadium 50
  • #11
Averagesupernova said:
Or, you could drive your car in a lake....
I know someone who did that.
It did not go well.
 
  • #12
If a current flows between two parts of a vehicle, corrosion will be stimulated at some contact in that circuit.

It is better to paint or powder-coat all surfaces, that will prevent conduction and corrosion of metals.

Above all, if water is present, you must prevent chlorine from salt, coming into contact with iron.
 
  • #13
Baluncore said:
If a current flows between two parts of a vehicle, corrosion will be stimulated at some contact in that circuit.

It is better to paint or powder-coat all surfaces, that will prevent conduction and corrosion of metals.

Above all, if water is present, you must prevent chlorine from salt, coming into contact with iron.
so you just have a the cathode end of the contact be some metal resevior that your replace
 
  • #14
paradoxlost said:
so you just have the cathode end of the contact be some metal reservoir that you replace
The use of a sacrificial anode, requires that the anode be immersed in an electrolyte. The anode metal is dissolved, and passes into the electrolyte, so some metal will be plated onto the cathode, which is the metal structure you want to protect.

How do you arrange the electrolyte reservoir to create a circuit?
 
  • #15
Baluncore said:
How do you arrange the electrolyte reservoir to create a circuit?

Averagesupernova said:
Or, you could drive your car in a lake....
 
  • #16
Baluncore said:
The use of a sacrificial anode, requires that the anode be immersed in an electrolyte. The anode metal is dissolved, and passes into the electrolyte, so some metal will be plated onto the cathode, which is the metal structure you want to protect.

How do you arrange the electrolyte reservoir to create a circuit?

perhaps the coolant or some analogous situation?
 
  • #17
paradoxlost said:
perhaps the coolant or some analogous situation?
The coolant system is a closed internal system, that is protected from corrosion by inhibitors in the coolant.

The manufacturer was careful to select materials and a coolant that would not corrode. If you pass a current through any part of the internal cooling system, you will force corrosion, not reduce it.

You cannot protect a vehicle from corrosion without either; (1) keeping all exterior surfaces covered by a protective surface treatment, or (2) keeping it underwater with a sacrificial anode like a boat hull.
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters and berkeman
  • #18
Baluncore said:
The coolant system is a closed internal system, that is protected from corrosion by inhibitors in the coolant.

The manufacturer was careful to select materials and a coolant that would not corrode. If you pass a current through any part of the internal cooling system, you will force corrosion, not reduce it.

You cannot protect a vehicle from corrosion without either; (1) keeping all exterior surfaces covered by a protective surface treatment, or (2) keeping it underwater with a sacrificial anode like a boat hull.
I just don't buy that. It seems like a solvable problem. We may not have the material science for it yet, but it doesn't seem like that difficult of an issue.
 
  • #19
paradoxlost said:
I just don't buy that. It seems like a solvable problem.
The electrochemistry of corrosion is very well understood, as is circuit theory. What you are asking for, is provably impossible.
Magic is not an acceptable solution on PF.
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters, Vanadium 50, berkeman and 1 other person
  • #20
paradoxlost said:
I just don't buy that. It seems like a solvable problem. We may not have the material science for it yet, but it doesn't seem like that difficult of an issue.
If it's not difficult why don't you just go do it?
 
  • Like
Likes russ_watters, berkeman and Averagesupernova
  • #21
Thread has been closed temporarily (by a different Mentor) for Moderation review.
 
  • #22
After a Mentor discussion, thread will remain closed.
 

Similar threads

Replies
54
Views
7K
  • Electrical Engineering
Replies
11
Views
690
  • Electrical Engineering
Replies
11
Views
1K
Replies
28
Views
42K
  • Electrical Engineering
Replies
21
Views
3K
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • Electrical Engineering
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • Electrical Engineering
Replies
13
Views
8K
  • Electrical Engineering
Replies
11
Views
4K
Back
Top