Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Catholic guy trying to get Kerry ex-communicated from the Catholic church.

  1. Jul 10, 2004 #1
    I was just watching Hannity and Colmes (gotta love endless rhetoric going nowhere), and one guest was some Catholic guy who filed for Kerry's ex-communication from the Catholic church becuase of his stance on abortion. I actually want Kerry to be president, but I also think that he should be ex-communicated. Whenever Kerry has been asked about his policy conflicting with his faith, he's responded by saying that he can believe whatever he wants as far as religion and it doesn't have to carry over into his politics becuase of the seperation of church and state, and that the church shouldn't tell him what to do politically. Certainly the church should have no influence on his (or anyones) politics, but if his political viewpoints conflict with the church, he should keep his political viewpoints and abandon the church that preaches against things he supports. It's just so hypocritical, annoying, and insulting to the intelligence of the American people when any politician says that they're deeply religious, get their spiritual guidance from religion, it taught them how to be a good person, gave them their moral base etc. and then their policy goes completely against their chosen religion. I'd be glad if he were ex-communicated and had to actually get votes based on politics, not his religion. I'm not a catholic, but I'd be deeply offended if someone claimed to be a catholic and then went out and made laws that went against catholocism. These politicians can't actually think they're fooling anyone, if they actually believed in catholocism, they would try to actually follow its lessons and save their soul and others, not just go to church on sunday and go against their faith on monday in passing legislation.

    Kerry is far from the only one who deserves to be cast away by their church, I'm sure people are aware of Bush's higher than average allowance of the death penalty, but this is a nice start, really trying to get religion and politics seperate again.

    I hope for the day when there can again be a candidate like Jefferson who doesn't have a mainstream religious affiliation and wins without people voting for him just because they go to the same type of church.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 10, 2004 #2

    Gokul43201

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Was it you that started the thread on who could be the next President, among a woman, a person of a minority race, etc ? I think the last person with a shot at making President would be the atheist. Ain't gonna happen in this country any time soon !
     
  4. Jul 10, 2004 #3
    Yeah it was me who started that, and I know about the atheist, too bad that this country's regressed so badly since Jefferson, he was obviously one of the best presidents ever, even if he didn't believe in god.
     
  5. Jul 10, 2004 #4

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    That's ironic - I don't want him to be president, but I don't think he should be excommunicated.
     
  6. Jul 10, 2004 #5

    Kerrie

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Gold Member

    religion and politics shouldn't mix...
     
  7. Jul 10, 2004 #6
    Kerry has said he's opposed to abortion and that life begins at conception. He has also said he supports a women's right to choose. Can someone please interpret this for me? Maybe someone from the National Organization for Women (NOW) might like to take a stab at it.
     
  8. Jul 10, 2004 #7
    Maybe he doesn't like abortion, but thinks if women want to kill their babies it's their buisness, so long as it's inutero? Maybe not though...
     
  9. Jul 10, 2004 #8
    If they excommunicate Kerry, they should also excommunicate the majority of Catholics who don't believe and/or practice 100% of the church’s teachings.
     
  10. Jul 10, 2004 #9
    Well, one of Christ's main messages was forgiveness and repentance, so excommunicating John Average who says "God Damnit!" when angry would be kind of strict, not leaving him room to change himself. However, excommunicating John Politician, who helps to pass laws which go against your church's teachings is a bit different, he's helping make it legal and acceptable for people to violate your teachings.
     
  11. Jul 10, 2004 #10
    Agreed.

    Where in the Catholic Bible does it say that life begins before conception? Where does it say that abortion is wrong?

    It doesn't. It gives messages that Catholics use as excuses to say that abortion is wrong, but it never clearly states it.

    Kerry has a different opinion and thinks that women should have a choice and that abortion isn't wrong. Why should he be excommunicated for ONE personal belief? If he's excommunicated, some 90% other Catholics should be excommunicated for their beliefs also.
     
  12. Jul 11, 2004 #11
    I think this is the bottom line. In general, people are pretty good at getting on with their lives in a rational way without any obvious signs of religiousity, but would be upset if there wasn't some sort of religious ceremony at weddings, funerals etc... and in the US it appears you need your politicians to have political convictions too?

    I am all for relgion - it can be a great source of solace etc - but lets not turn elections into weddings, where we need to have it dressed up to be palatable. I wouldn't want a politician to be the Pope, and we really don't need our political leaders to leak their half-baked self-serving religious insights - I am talking Bush, Blair, and anyone else who using religion as an excuse for political ends - into their secular lives. Kerrie has summed it up, and really we need say no more - just look at history.

    Anyway, should we be allowed to discuss this topic on a Sunday? :wink:
     
  13. Jul 11, 2004 #12

    Gokul43201

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Can you not be a Catholic because ou agree with a majority of their ideas? Should you be ex-communicated for disagreeing with a few or helping to pass laws against them ?

    Should the log-cabiners be ex-communicated from the Republican Party because they support gay marriage and would like to have it legalized?

    How about Schwarzenegger ?

    Can the Bush administration be allowed to call themselves conservatives, when they've drummed up an astronomical fiscal deficit ?

    Why am I talking in questions ?
     
  14. Jul 11, 2004 #13

    enigma

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    The Catholic Church must really want to lose their tax excempt status...

    I'm tickled pink. I'm only a little ticked that my taxes go to pay for their profits.
     
  15. Jul 11, 2004 #14
    How about Thou shall not kill.. If you believe life begins at conception, but also believe in a women's right to choose, then your condoning murder. My personal opinion of Kerry is that he's an empty shell with no deep convictions.
     
  16. Jul 11, 2004 #15

    selfAdjoint

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Gold Member
    Dearly Missed

    I believe the Catholic belief that not only life, but specifically human personhood begins at conception goes back to the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. It is important that Catholics don't get their doctrine from the "Catholic Bible" alone, but also from the continuing inspiration of the church, namely the saints and the Pope. And the Immaculate Conception was proclaimed a truth of doctrine by the Pope in the 19th century.

    It states that the virgin Mary was preserved from Original Sin "from the first moment of her conception". So it required her to BE Mary at that moment, and if she, then so also every fetus, every fertilized zygote, is a person.
     
  17. Jul 11, 2004 #16
    Lets not get into counting how many angels can fit on a pin head. :zzz:

    And speaking of pinheads, are you really going to stand for any more of Bush's holy wars? (That's holy, spelled O-I-L). :eek:

    If it comes down to religion - nominal Catholicism or not - I reckon you'd have to run a fully fledged satanist as democrat to make voting republican seem like a good idea.
     
  18. Jul 11, 2004 #17

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Its quite simple really: Kerry is a politician and his campaign advisors have devised that strategy for trying to please as many people at once as they can.
    So in God's eyes, the politically powerful really are different than everyone else? Not buying it.

    I actually think this whole flap is funny because it exposes the Vatican for what they are: a government. They aren't going after Kerry because of his beliefs, they are going after him (like you said), because of what he can do with them: He's a politician. Just like them. And that makes him a threat to their political power.

    edit: So how's this for more irony: I'm not Catholic, I'm protestant. But if I were Catholic, I'd be more inclined to vote for Kerry because he's going against the Vatican and they don't like him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2004
  19. Jul 11, 2004 #18
    Well I don't claim to know how god views things, or to know if god exists etc. What I'm saying is, the Catholic church says abortion's wrong, so they don't want a member of their church which makes it legal to have abortions to retain his membership.

    Of course, they are also a govt. shrouded in religion...
     
  20. Jul 15, 2004 #19

    kat

    User Avatar

    Lol, Huh? Catholics don't like the Vatican?

    Yes, Kerry should be ex-communicated if he continues to support stances that are against the tenents of the Catholic faith. Being ex-communicated means being denied communion. It does not mean that he is not allowed to go to church. On another note, why the hell would he want to continue to be a Catholic and recieve communion if he doesn't agree with the catholic faith?
    It's completely hypocritical. The same goes for other people who declare their faith as Catholic and yet don't even believe in the basic tenents of the religion. Who's kidding who?
     
  21. Jul 15, 2004 #20

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    No, the Vatican doesn't like Kerry. By "they" I mean the Vatican. Though I do know several Catholics who aren't real keen on the Vatican.

    kat, does everyone in a religion necessarily believe in absolutely everything in the religion? Are religious laws the same as tenets of faith? Does the Apostle's Creed (the Christian statement of faith) say anything about abortion? Does the church leadership necessarily know better than the members? Does the church leadership ever make mistakes? Are specific rules necessarily important to the faith (ie, which is more important to a Catholic - not eating meat on Friday or believing in Jesus?).

    If everyone had to believe in absolutely everything in a religion to be a part of it, virtually everyone would need to form their own religion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2004
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Catholic guy trying to get Kerry ex-communicated from the Catholic church.
  1. Catholics Control EU (Replies: 18)

Loading...