Catholic guy trying to get Kerry ex-communicated from the Catholic church.

[Njorl]

Lol, Huh? Catholics don't like the Vatican?

Yes, Kerry should be ex-communicated if he continues to support stances that are against the tenents of the Catholic faith. Being ex-communicated means being denied communion. It does not mean that he is not allowed to go to church. On another note, why the hell would he want to continue to be a Catholic and receive communion if he doesn't agree with the catholic faith?
It's completely hypocritical. The same goes for other people who declare their faith as Catholic and yet don't even believe in the basic tenents of the religion. Who's kidding who?

Supporting a woman's right to choose is not inconsistant with the Catholic faith. The Catholic doctrine states that abortion is a serious sin. Does it state that supporting the freedom to choose is a sin? Many things are sin according to Catholic doctrine that are not illegal. Protecting the rights of the people to choose to engage in that activity is not necessarily abrogating doctrine. Eating meat on Lenten Fridays is a sin. Should all Catholic polititians legislate to prevent it? The standard that Kerry is being held to would certainly eliminate every Catholic from public office if it were applied in any but a cynical, political manner. That is why Karl Rove has stated that this standard should only apply to John Kerry.

Njorl

 

[Njorl]

I grew up Catholic. I was actually a true believer until about 14 or so, then broke completely at 18. I still consider myself "ethnically Catholic". I think outsiders drastically overestimate the power of the Church heirarchy in the US. It has been my experience that Catholics are fond of the Pope, but are not very interested in anything he has to say. Bishops are either ignored or detested. I have never heard a fellow Catholic say a nice thing about a bishop or Cardinal in the US.

Njorl

 

[kat]

Supporting a woman's right to choose is not inconsistant with the Catholic faith. The Catholic doctrine states that abortion is a serious sin. Does it state that supporting the freedom to choose is a sin? Many things are sin according to Catholic doctrine that are not illegal. Protecting the rights of the people to choose to engage in that activity is not necessarily abrogating doctrine. Eating meat on Lenten Fridays is a sin. Should all Catholic polititians legislate to prevent it? The standard that Kerry is being held to would certainly eliminate every Catholic from public office if it were applied in any but a cynical, political manner. That is why Karl Rove has stated that this standard should only apply to John Kerry.

Njorl

I gave several references to cannon law within this thread, perhaps you would prefer to rebut those rather then just offer your opinion.

What exactly is it that Karl Rove has stated?

 

[kat]

I grew up Catholic. I was actually a true believer until about 14 or so, then broke completely at 18. I still consider myself "ethnically Catholic". I think outsiders drastically overestimate the power of the Church heirarchy in the US. It has been my experience that Catholics are fond of the Pope, but are not very interested in anything he has to say. Bishops are either ignored or detested. I have never heard a fellow Catholic say a nice thing about a bishop or Cardinal in the US.

Njorl

Lol, your family must be less loyal Catholics then mine and you must live in a less Catholic area... :surprise:

 

[russ_watters]

Clarify please.

First hit on a google: http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/articles/history.asp

Most people believe that the Roman Catholic Church’s position on abortion has remained unchanged for two thousand years. Not true. Church teaching on abortion has varied continually over the course of its history. There has been no unanimous opinion on abortion at any time. While there has been constant general agreement that abortion is almost always evil and sinful, the church has had difficulty in defining the nature of that evil. Members of the Catholic hierarchy have opposed abortion consistently as evidence of sexual sin, but they have not always seen early abortion as homicide. Contrary to conventional wisdom, the "right-to-life" argument is a relatively recent development in church teaching. The debate continues today.

I think outsiders drastically overestimate the power of the Church heirarchy in the US. It has been my experience that Catholics are fond of the Pope, but are not very interested in anything he has to say. Bishops are either ignored or detested. I have never heard a fellow Catholic say a nice thing about a bishop or Cardinal in the US.

Just to make sure I'm not giving a false impression here, I don't think the Vatican has much influence. Kerry is a case-in-point. My perception is simply that that fact pisses the Vatican off. It is also my opinion that control, not salvation, is the driving force behind Catholic law. And also, since Catholic law is passed by humans that law could be (and has, in many cases, proven itself to be) flawed. Thus, disagreeing on certain laws is not blasphemy.

 

[motai]

I am all for relgion - it can be a great source of solace etc - but let's not turn elections into weddings, where we need to have it dressed up to be palatable. I wouldn't want a politician to be the Pope, and we really don't need our political leaders to leak their half-baked self-serving religious insights - I am talking Bush, Blair, and anyone else who using religion as an excuse for political ends - into their secular lives. Kerrie has summed it up, and really we need say no more - just look at history.

I thought this entire issue was settled by the time John F. Kennedy was elected... a Catholic in office does not mean that the country will be run by the Pope.

 

[loseyourname]

Its a bit like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Ever notice the cute way that children sometimes give presents to adults that the child themselves would like? They think that because they like The Cat in the Hat, you are going to love the Cat in the Hat keyring they have got for you.

You know, I always thought the same thing. What does love your neighbor as you love yourself mean if you don't love yourself. I think it's more than obvious that many people do not. Regarding the golden rule, should a person with a death wish go around killing everyone he sees?

This is exactly why I say Christian ethics don't make any sense, and should have absolutely nothing to do with how legislation is written or passed in this country.