Exploring the Mysteries of the Center of the Universe

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In summary: Originally posted by Rudi The big bang created space - space did not exist before it.I thought that the universe's center is unacessible because it does not have a dimension, like Earth with an unbreakable crust. We only live on the surface of it.Good subject>Is the Universe finite? Probably.Does it have a center. Well, probably not quite: The curvature of space-time prevents us from defining a center.A center is based upon 'anthropic' views. It probably does not have an independant physical location.We have discovered "laws" of Physics which are probably a reflection of the true state of matter-energy. But
  • #281
Originally posted by Hydr0matic
Ok, how about this... http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw68.html. Can the Sorce model explain this ?

BTW the article shows many historical inaccuracies, such as:

"The remarkable expansion of the universe was discovered in 1929 by CalTech astronomer Edwin Hubble, who showed that distant galaxies are systematically moving away from us and from each other."

Hubble simply found that there was a relationship between distance and red-shift. He did not believe that this meant that the galaxies were actually moving away from us. That assumption is pure speculation and interpretation which the "Fingers of God" and the "Cosmic Stretch marks" show is inaccurate.
 
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  • #282
and there is no "nothing" before that moment
what is before is infinite but different and some kind of
radical change happens but the evolution of it is governed by equations and does not involve
divergences (divergent curvature was why the 1916 GR model broke at time zero). Here the parameters stay under control. It is not
conclusive but it is promising.

OK, this sounds interesting. So, essentially you're saying that before Big-Bang existed something that we can call "pre-space", that I must suppose that was not expanding. Then suddenly, at time zero, Big Bang and expansion. What kind of mechanism can afford this, some phase transition? I don't know.
 
  • #283
Originally posted by subtillioN
I have never heard of this before. Can you give me a bit more information with perhaps some images of the cosmic "stretch-marks"?

BTW it sounds like the "Fingers of God" phenomenon discussed earlier in this thread (or was it another one?) which shows the Velocity-to-distance mapping to be incorrect. I would bet that it is another artifact of the faulty doppler interpretation of red-shift.
It's not like the "Fingers of God" no.. Here is another paper which includes graphic elements.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/TJv16n2_CENTRE.pdf

Although this is not a reliable source, and the author interprets the quantization as evidence that Earth is the center of the universe, it will perhaps enlighten you a bit more about the quantization. Sorry I couldn't find anything else. Please disregard the author's interpretations :smile:
 
  • #284
Originally posted by Hydr0matic
It's not like the "Fingers of God" no.. Here is another paper which includes graphic elements.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/TJv16n2_CENTRE.pdf

Although this is not a reliable source, and the author interprets the quantization as evidence that Earth is the center of the universe, it will perhaps enlighten you a bit more about the quantization. Sorry I couldn't find anything else. Please disregard the author's interpretations :smile:

Just a quick note before reading this article, energy of all forms is quantized at many levels. I see no particular reason why the mechanism of redshift wouldn't be quantized as well.

I will give this a thorough reading soon and come back with my feedback. It sounds fascinating, thanks.
 
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  • #285
Originally posted by Hydr0matic
It's not like the "Fingers of God" no.. Here is another paper which includes graphic elements.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/TJv16n2_CENTRE.pdf

Although this is not a reliable source, and the author interprets the quantization as evidence that Earth is the center of the universe, it will perhaps enlighten you a bit more about the quantization. Sorry I couldn't find anything else. Please disregard the author's interpretations :smile:

The images suggest to me that it could very easily be a consequence of the inhomogeneity of the intersteller medium which causes the red-shift.

See this link I already provided as a possible mechanism for the red-shift:
http://www.Newtonphysics.on.ca/hydrogen/index.html

Meanwhile, back to reading the article.
 
  • #286
Originally posted by Hydr0matic
It's not like the "Fingers of God" no.. Here is another paper which includes graphic elements.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/tj/docs/TJv16n2_CENTRE.pdf

Although this is not a reliable source, and the author interprets the quantization as evidence that Earth is the center of the universe, it will perhaps enlighten you a bit more about the quantization. Sorry I couldn't find anything else. Please disregard the author's interpretations :smile:

Ok here is my very simple answer.

Look closely with a critical eye. The data graphs do not match the illustrations of the concentric shells nor do they match the simulations. This leads me to assume that it is a simple inhomogeneity of the intersteller medium which causes the inhomogeneity (bunching) of the red-shifts.

"The heart of the big bang is atheism"

Is that the kind of thing you were warning me about?

[[[ seems inverted to me! ]]]
 
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  • #287
Originally posted by subtillioN
Ok here is my very simple answer.

Look closely with a critical eye. The data graphs do not match the illustrations of the concentric shells nor do they match the simulations. This leads me to assume that it is a simple inhomogeneity of the intersteller medium which causes the inhomogeneity (bunching) of the red-shifts.
So you're saying that it's the very specific distribution of the H2 that's causing the quantization ? Just so I'm clear on what your saying...

Originally posted by subtillioN
"The heart of the big bang is atheism"

Is that the kind of thing you were warning me about?

[[[ seems inverted to me! ]]]
Among other things :wink: ..

Let's revisit the Hubble Law... You say that the "velocity to distance mapping is proven to give incorrect results", and yet you agree there's actually a redshift-distance relation (which you explain with intergalactic H2? Have I understood you correct?). But not only is intergalactic gas responsible for redshifts, there's also an inherent redshift signifying an objects age, correct ? Not to mention the doppler effect.

So how, in Sorce theory, does one know if an object is far away, young or fast moving, judging by it's redshift ?
 
  • #288
Originally posted by Hydr0matic
So you're saying that it's the very specific distribution of the H2 that's causing the quantization ? Just so I'm clear on what your saying...


Yes that is correct.

Let's revisit the Hubble Law... You say that the "velocity to distance mapping is proven to give incorrect results", and yet you agree there's actually a redshift-distance relation (which you explain with intergalactic H2? Have I understood you correct?).

Yes the red-shift to distance relationship is real but it is not a linear absolute projection. It is far from an exact relation.

But not only is intergalactic gas responsible for redshifts, there's also an inherent redshift signifying an objects age, correct?

There is some corelation with age it seems.

Not to mention the doppler effect.

Right, there is also a doppler effect from objects in motion.

So how, in Sorce theory, does one know if an object is far away, young or fast moving, judging by it's redshift ?

Sorce Theory is no different in respect to this phenomenon. It uses all the known techniques for determining distance. They simply must be used in conjunction with full awareness of the limitations of each.

Sorce Theory is a Unification Theory. It explains the nature of quantum scale phenomena and all the forces and unifies and explains these recurring matter/energy patterns appearing on many scales in the Universe.
 
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  • #289
Originally posted by subtillioN
Yes that is correct.
Ok. Wouldn't the H2 distribution have to be pretty non-random to give that kind of redshift distribution ? What do you suppose could have caused this non-random distribution ?
 
  • #290
Originally posted by Hydr0matic
Ok. Wouldn't the H2 distribution have to be pretty non-random to give that kind of redshift distribution ? What do you suppose could have caused this non-random distribution ?

It is well known that the H2 distribution is quite anisotropic. There have been observations of vast hydrogen clouds surrounding galaxies and existing in intergalactic space.
 
  • #291
Originally posted by Arc_Central
...there is one thing that ticks me off...that character by the name of Chroot. I've seen maybe a dozen of his post so far, and have yet to see anything off substance.
Hey, I go on vacation for a couple of days, and miss some good ol' chroot bashing! Well, I just have to retort.

First, you admit having only seen [maybe] a dozen of my posts. I've posted, thus far, 460 times. I've posted a dozen times in this thread alone, in response to this entertaining wacko subtillioN. You've seen [maybe] 2.5% of my posts on this site.

For your own edification, I suggest you learn to use the 'search' feature here on physicsforums before making a fool of yourself. Since your substance-o-meter seems to be broken, here are some of my recent posts that I personally feel are bursting at the seams with 'substance.'

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=44233#post44233
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=42236#post42236
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=41293#post41293
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=40527#post40527
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=40490#post40490
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=39929#post39929

and so on, and so on. Mmmmmmm, substance.
Whip it out! Put up or shut up! Enough of this perverted display.
Consider it whipped out.
I can only say either bring it up to the plate and show us a swinging #@%&
Wow, you're really fond of the penis references, aren't you? You might be interested to know that, in addition to my physical prowess, my cock is, in fact, also bigger than yours.

- Warren
 
  • #292
Consider this cut off.
 
<h2>1. What is the center of the universe?</h2><p>The concept of a "center" of the universe is a common misconception. The universe does not have a fixed center, as it is constantly expanding and does not have a defined boundary. Every point in the universe can be considered the center, depending on your perspective.</p><h2>2. How do scientists explore the mysteries of the center of the universe?</h2><p>Scientists use a variety of tools and techniques to study the universe, including telescopes, satellites, and computer simulations. They also gather data from cosmic radiation, gravitational waves, and other sources to better understand the structure and evolution of the universe.</p><h2>3. What are some current theories about the center of the universe?</h2><p>One theory is the Big Bang theory, which suggests that the universe began as a singularity and has been expanding ever since. Another theory is the inflation theory, which proposes that the universe underwent a rapid period of expansion in its early stages. There are also theories about the existence of multiple universes and the possibility of a multiverse.</p><h2>4. Are there any mysteries that remain unsolved about the center of the universe?</h2><p>Yes, there are still many mysteries that scientists are trying to unravel about the center of the universe. Some of these include the nature of dark matter and dark energy, the origin of the universe, and the possibility of other forms of life in the universe.</p><h2>5. How does understanding the center of the universe benefit society?</h2><p>Studying the mysteries of the center of the universe can lead to a better understanding of the origins and evolution of the universe. This knowledge can also have practical applications, such as improving our understanding of technology, developing new materials, and advancing our understanding of the laws of physics. Additionally, exploring the center of the universe can inspire curiosity and wonder, leading to new discoveries and advancements in science and technology.</p>

1. What is the center of the universe?

The concept of a "center" of the universe is a common misconception. The universe does not have a fixed center, as it is constantly expanding and does not have a defined boundary. Every point in the universe can be considered the center, depending on your perspective.

2. How do scientists explore the mysteries of the center of the universe?

Scientists use a variety of tools and techniques to study the universe, including telescopes, satellites, and computer simulations. They also gather data from cosmic radiation, gravitational waves, and other sources to better understand the structure and evolution of the universe.

3. What are some current theories about the center of the universe?

One theory is the Big Bang theory, which suggests that the universe began as a singularity and has been expanding ever since. Another theory is the inflation theory, which proposes that the universe underwent a rapid period of expansion in its early stages. There are also theories about the existence of multiple universes and the possibility of a multiverse.

4. Are there any mysteries that remain unsolved about the center of the universe?

Yes, there are still many mysteries that scientists are trying to unravel about the center of the universe. Some of these include the nature of dark matter and dark energy, the origin of the universe, and the possibility of other forms of life in the universe.

5. How does understanding the center of the universe benefit society?

Studying the mysteries of the center of the universe can lead to a better understanding of the origins and evolution of the universe. This knowledge can also have practical applications, such as improving our understanding of technology, developing new materials, and advancing our understanding of the laws of physics. Additionally, exploring the center of the universe can inspire curiosity and wonder, leading to new discoveries and advancements in science and technology.

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