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News Challenge me…

  1. Aug 31, 2004 #1
    To find an issue of some importance that Kerry has not been “for and against”.

    You provide the “flip”, I’ll provide the “flop”.

    For instance re: "war on terror", you provide (include reference):

    ‘…It’s basically a manhunt…’

    I’ll provide:

    ‘…This war isn’t just a manhunt…’

    Total score: Flip - 1 No flip - 0
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 31, 2004 #2


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    An easy one, just to get you warmed up :smile: .
  4. Aug 31, 2004 #3
    Thank you, but I think they'll all be easy.

    “In 2004, Kerry Denied Ever Having Called Affirmative Action “Divisive.” CNN’s KELLY WALLACE: “We caught up with the Senator, who said he never called affirmative action divisive, and accused Clark of playing politics.” SEN. KERRY: “That’s not what I said. I said there are people who believe that. And I said mend it, don’t end it… (CNN’s “Inside Politics,” 1/30/04)

    Total score: Flip - 2 Flop - 0
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2004
  5. Aug 31, 2004 #4
    John Kerry, not only is he inconsistant, can't stay with a conviction for any amount of time, does whatever is popular at the moment, but he's also THE MOST LIBERAL MEMBER OF THE SENATE AND WAY OUTSIDE THE MAINSTREAM...

    Ok, here's some that's pretty consistant with Kerry: he's not George W. Bush.
  6. Aug 31, 2004 #5
    FLIP - 3 ??
  7. Aug 31, 2004 #6
    *patiently waits for Njorl's response*
  8. Sep 1, 2004 #7
    You might have me on that one, he only wishes he were. Sorry can’t use it w/o reference.
    Typical anti-Bush sentiments. I have sympathy for the democratic voter, forced to choose between someone they hate and a pompous ass.
    “… but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him… “(ABC News, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Columbia, SC, 5/4/03)

    “I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein comply with the resolutions of the United Nations.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Announcement Of Presidential Candidacy, Mount Pleasant, SC, 9/2/03)

    ”… Are you one of the anti-war candidates?” KERRY: “I am -- Yes, in the sense that I don’t believe the president took us to war as he should have, yes, absolutely.” (MSNBC’s “Hardball,” 1/6/04)

    Kerry was absolutely splendid. On a single issue He provided us with a pair of flip-flops, a half flip, a half flop, a 'hedge my bet' and was positive about it.

    Total score: Flip - 3 No Flip - 0

    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  9. Sep 1, 2004 #8


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    I think I have a flip for you. If i'm correct, Kerry never supported the Vietnam war (no flopping there). I don't have any references or the time to find them, so if someone can look this up for me, that'd be great.
  10. Sep 1, 2004 #9
    LOL..what have you been smoking? I don't hate nor like Bush.

    I'm not crazy about Kerry either, he's not strong on issues. I personally don't think he'll win.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2004
  11. Sep 1, 2004 #10
    Professional - Appology :cry: tendered!
  12. Sep 1, 2004 #11
    Don’t bother looking it up.

    http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service.html… [Broken] As he was about to graduate from Yale, John Kerry volunteered to serve in Vietnam - because, as he later said, "it was the right thing to do." He believed that because he had had a lot of privileges in life - for example, attending a great university like Yale - he had a responsibility to give something back to his country.

    http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061603.shtml… [Broken] I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a little-noticed contribution to a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

    Total score: Flip - 4 No Flip - 0

    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  13. Sep 1, 2004 #12


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    Geniere...this is confusing. Why don't you stick with one scoring system instead of continuously flip-flopping ?

    <neutral observer :wink:>
  14. Sep 1, 2004 #13
    Yep - Confused me also.
  15. Sep 1, 2004 #14
    "As he was about to graduate from Yale, John Kerry volunteered to serve in Vietnam - because, as he later said, "it was the right thing to do." He believed that because he had had a lot of privileges in life - for example, attending a great university like Yale - he had a responsibility to give something back to his country."

    That statement is refering to the fact he believes giving back to your country is the right thing to do. It doesn't necessarily refer to him supporting the war.

    I find it's sad that a candidate has to flip and flop just be be considered over an opposition that clearly needs to be voted out.

    On another note: Isn't that new democratic commercial awesome. The one with the broken record is excellent. Bush's monotonous voice echos the point they are trying to make.


    ‘…It’s basically a manhunt…’
    ‘…This war isn’t just a manhunt…’

    Something can be basically a manhunt and still be not just a manhunt. Basically doesn't apply something to be entirely something.

    Edit: "Kerry declared that “even knowing what we now know,” he would still have cast his vote in the Senate to authorize the Bush administration to invade Iraq. “I would have voted for the authority,” said Kerry. “I believe it was the right authority for the president to have.”

    Kerry knows how to stand by his leader like he would stand by America if President. He can believe the President should have authority and not agree with the war. If everyone spoke out about everything the leader did that upset them then little would get done. Kerry probably realizes this.

    It's the lack of common sense among individuals that's forcing Kerry to flip flop. I find it upseting.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2004
  16. Sep 1, 2004 #15


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    [PLAIN]http://www.play-hookey.com/digital/images/jkf00000.gif [Broken] [/PLAIN]

    Why do you think they call that a JK Flip-Flop ? :laughing:
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  17. Sep 1, 2004 #16


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    Finding flip-flops is going to be an inherently simple task. You find it in just about any supporter of the Iraq war.

    Pat Tillman would be one of the few exceptions. Most war supporters aren't committed enough in their support to quit their day jobs. Obvioulsy, most supporters of the Iraq invasion are flip-floppers.

    What you're suggesting is that attempting to serve in the safest manner possible is a flip-flop. Using those ground rules, the only way you can't find a flip-flop is if he volunteers to be designated as the guy officially resposnsible for jumping on top of any grenades that happen to land nearby.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  18. Sep 1, 2004 #17


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    The flip-flop in those quotes isn't his support for the war (in so many words), its his reason for joining the military: he said both that he did and didn't want to go to Vietnam.
  19. Sep 1, 2004 #18
    He could want to go for some reasons and not want to go for others.

    I both do and don't want to go back to school for example. I do want to learn but I don't want to wake up to go there.
  20. Sep 1, 2004 #19
    I think a pro/con position is inferred but if GZA (originator) wishes I’ll alter the score.
  21. Sep 1, 2004 #20
    Geniere, I wonder if you could come up with a stance Bush's taken that you feel he's been consistant on, and let me see if I can find a flip-flop he's preformed, or an outright lie he's told in regards to it.

    One thing that immediately comes to mind is, he used to say nuclear the right way, now he say nukyuhler :rofl:
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2004
  22. Sep 1, 2004 #21
    :rofl: Yuk- yuk!

    Wasteof2 - Start your own thread - I'l play.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  23. Sep 2, 2004 #22
  24. Sep 2, 2004 #23
    OK, you're going to have to defend this claim of a flip-flop.

    1) Kerry thinks disarming Saddam was a good thing. When the president decided to disarm Saddam, Kerry thought it was good, Kerry supports the fact that Bush disarmed Saddam. So far a consistent set of beliefs, no?

    2) Kerry's vote for the resolution was meant to scare Saddam into letting weapons inspectors come, and hopefully find/destroy weapons Saddam had. Kerry seems to have the common goal of disarming Saddam, and he was only explaining his vote. He wanted Bush to threaten Saddam to disarm him, but Bush didn't, and even though Bush went about it a way Kerry didn't like, Saddam got disarmed, which Kerry thought was good. I still see no inconsistancies/contradictions.

    3) Kerry qualifies himself as an anti-war candidate because he feels the president lead us to war poorly. Kerry supports the fact that Bush disarmed Saddam of whatever weapons he had, but thinks that the war as a whole has not been waged the way it should. I don't see how agreeing with one aspect of a war, but disagreeing with it as a whole is a flip-flop, it's holding an opinion that isn't totally black and white, it shows he has some complex thought going on.

    If someone said: "I supported America getting the Japanese military out of China and undermining their ability to wage war during World War II. I supported means to diplomatically control/stop the Japanese military. I support the fact that the US military won the war against Japan, but I was opposed to the way in which it was won because I would not have used the nuclear bombs on Japan, so I could have been called anti-war, if you take it in the context that I was opposed to how the war was waged.", is that a contradiction, a flip-flop? I think it's just having a detailed opinion about many aspects of a situation, but you can call me crazy.
  25. Sep 2, 2004 #24
    1 – Agreed

    2 – That is not what he voted for!

    3 – Half flip, half flop, and positive about it.

    A democratic president authorized the A bomb be used. Whether its use was necessary and/or proper is still being debated today. I’m inclined to think its use then has made it impossible for nations to use it against other nations. Terrorists have no such reservations. Anyhow we can only judge Kerry by what he says or does, not by what we think he means, nor by poor analogies.
  26. Sep 2, 2004 #25
    He supported GW's father in the same manner. Apparently in an successful effort to “set up” the senator, one of his constituents wrote two letters to Kerry re Iraqi war (1991).

    “Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war.’’ -- Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 22 [1991]

    “Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. …I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush’s response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf.” --Senator Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 31 [1991]”
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