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News Changing the American Way

  1. Sep 2, 2009 #1

    Astronuc

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    A question and title of a thread - Is economic collapse in the United States imminent?

    The answer is no, but the current way is unsustainable. Andrew J. Bacevich articulates my concerns and the fact that the US must change current policies and its lifestyle.

    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/watch.html


    and Carter was right.

    Bacevich is author of The Limits Of Power: The End Of American Exceptionalism and
    American Empire: The Realities And Consequences Of U. S. Diplomacy (2002),
    The Imperial Tense: Problems And Prospects Of American Empire (2003) (Editor),
    The New American Militarism: How Americans Are Seduced By War (2005), and
    The Long War: A New History Of Us National Security Policy Since World War II (2007) (Editor)
     
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  3. Sep 2, 2009 #2

    russ_watters

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    "Is an imperial presidency"? We didn't have one in 2008 and haven't for at least 100 years. Bacevich sounds like a real left fielder.

    No, Carter was not right! Being right doesn't mean making a prediction that eventually comes true, it means making a timely prediction. This is similar to the people who have been predicting recessions for the past four years. You don't get a win for predicting something that happens periodically.

    Carter's prediction is a little different, but one thing that you'd have to prove in order to show that he was right is that he wasn't talking about the crisis the country was in at the time. Ie, did his prediction include a 20+ year period of extremely low gas prices? If he had radically changed the way the US deals with fossil fuels back in the 1970s, it would have been irresponsible because it would have resulted in decades of reduced economic growth. Being ahead of your time isn't always a positive thing.
     
  4. Sep 2, 2009 #3
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2017
  5. Sep 2, 2009 #4

    Wax

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    Lots of fear mongering and propaganda. That's exactly why their ratings are so high.

    "I fear this government
    , this administration
    has so much framework already prepared, that they will seize power overnight before anybody even gives it a second thought,"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2017
  6. Sep 2, 2009 #5
    Did you bother to listen to the interview? I think he substantiates his use of the phrase well.
    Carter was speaking of where the path lead us, not what sights we would take in along the way.
    I think such fixation on short term conditions in disregard of the long term results Carter predicted was exceedingly irresponsible.
     
  7. Sep 2, 2009 #6

    OmCheeto

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    Carter was probably parroting something that one of his old boss's once said a few years earlier:

     
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  8. Sep 3, 2009 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    Why would anyone care what Glenn Beck thinks? The guy is a nut.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7-BvVDV10
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  9. Sep 3, 2009 #8

    lisab

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    I suppose if consuming more than one can afford is part of the American way of life, then yes, it is going to change, imo. In fact that change is already well under way.

    Glenn Beck is from a local town here in Washington state - Mt Vernon, about 30 miles north of Seattle. The mayor of Mt Vernon recently announced September 26 will be http://www.komonews.com/news/local/56662302.html" [Broken], and Beck will be awarded the Key to the City.

    Protesters at city hall a few days ago were carrying signs saying "Change The Locks!!"

    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  10. Sep 3, 2009 #9

    mheslep

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    Arg, in a seven post thread about the American way of life, we get four posts about Glen Beck. Wait, five!
     
  11. Sep 4, 2009 #10

    OmCheeto

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    I notice that the interview took place a year ago. I suppose it is debatable as to whether or not some of his predictions have come true.

    Was that a prediction of the market crash, or is the black day still ahead?

    It would be interesting to listen to an interview with Andy today, and see if he still believes some of the things he said.

    I wonder if he liked the cash for clunkers program?
     
  12. Sep 4, 2009 #11

    OmCheeto

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    hmmmm...... No comments?

    Maybe I should have put in a bigger sound bite:

     
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  13. Sep 4, 2009 #12

    Astronuc

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    I don't think Carter was necessarily parroting Rickhover as much as he was reflecting on the energy dependence of the US.

    I was struck by Rickhover's comment: "Our country, with only 6% of the world's population, uses one third of the world's total energy input; . . . . "

    Currently, the US has about 5% of the world's population and consumes about 25-26% of the energy, despite improvements in efficiency.

    Coincidentally, I'm reading about the industrial revolution in Lancashire and the rise of trade and industry in cities like Liverpool during the 1700's. Lancashire had a diversified economy, and imported goods from Africa and the Americas, and exported salt, coal, and manufactured goods to the colonies as well as to the European markets. It was also at this time that slavery became an important economic component.
     
  14. Sep 4, 2009 #13

    mheslep

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    Energy Sec. Chu has a nice energy road show talk he uses which includes that 'energy slave' metaphor. Given the average work output of an adult human, and the daily energy usage of
    the average American, he calculates the average American (all 300m) has 100 energy slaves.

    A mention here for instance:
    http://www.evworld.com/EVWORLD_TV.CFM?storyid=1354 [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  15. Sep 5, 2009 #14
    I don't think anyone doubts the coming (and currently underway) standard of living pull back that the U.S. is seeing. Economists/Financiers/Politicians of all categories have expressed the notion that we will have to step aside and no longer be the sole dominant force in world politics...

    and thats fine by me..
     
  16. Sep 6, 2009 #15

    mheslep

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    I doubt it.
    The US is not the 'sole' force on very much, though it is dominant in many.

    You step aside then.
     
  17. Sep 7, 2009 #16
    The american way already has changed and that is the problem. Where there once was frugality we now have materialism, the belief that government at best is a neccesary evil has changed to the government is all powerful and can solve any problem, the belief that no one had the right to force their neighbor into a believing as they do has become it is for their own good that I force them to change. Where once we had freedom of choice we now have freedom of a few choices.Where we once hated titles and classes we now allow government to give titles and put everyone into classes. Where we once believed in enlightenment of the mind we now believe we need to close the mind, since people cant be trusted to their own choices. Where we once hated nobility, we now allow politicians to pass their seat on to family members without a vote. Once we believed in taxes being voluntary they are now forced. Where we once believed failure was the best teaching instrument we now believe no one should fail(and therefore learn from their mistakes)Where we once believed in independence we now beleive in being dependent on everyone but ourselves. Where we once believed in the power of the individual we are now told we have to set our differences aside and conform. Where we once believed government couldnt break the same rules they impose on us we now have a government that arrests citizens for doing the same thing they do(think bernie madoff and social security, both are ponzi schemes). In short once we were british then we became AMERICAN and now we've gone full circle and become british. All history of the revolution that I have read says we fought against the british so why now are we adopting all the same policies our founding generation fought and died fighting against? Government isn't our savior, government will be our demise if we continue down the road were on.
     
  18. Sep 7, 2009 #17

    OmCheeto

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    I see it as a solution.
    I like stuff.
    As Lisab once said, "Go move to Wutchamastan, where they don't have a government, and the rule of the land is whoever shoots first wins." (Ok. I completely made that up. But she did mention something like that.)
    Disagree.
    what?
    what?
    Quintuple what?
    We still have one of the lowest tax burdens of the industrialized nations.
    Quadruple what?
    I believe we started out as French, British, Spanish, Native American, etc.
    But kraut appears to now be our dominant ancestry:
    290px-Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries.jpg
    Because the young nearly always rebel against the old. It's gods way of getting them out of the house.
    Once again, move to Wutchamastan. And carry lots of ammunition.
     
  19. Sep 7, 2009 #18

    If it is such a solution why has it not solved anything and why? Or if you think it has solved problems please explain.

    I also like stuff, did Benjiman Franklin have stuff? I believe he did and he was the biggest supporter of living frugally. Living frugally doesnt mean you cant have stuff it just means you live within your means. Living in debt is no better than slavery, who do you work for?

    I never said I was a fan of no government, but we sure could do without alot of what we have. Besides as an american I have the right to disagree with the government, don't I? But the way our government is set up(bound by the constitution) the government doesnt have the right to do what they want(even with a super majority, unless that majority ammends the const.). If they are, where is it enumerated in the constitution?
    Using your line of reasoning why dont you move to a socialist country if you think their policies are so great. So lets look at which one of us likes law and order more, you the one who thinks the government can do whatever they feel like, or me the one who thinks the government should follow the law they are bound by and swear to uphold and to defend against all encroachments, foreign and internal?

    We also have a low amount of poverty, so should we just disregard the impoverished? Just because it is already lower does that mean we still cant go lower, and as the people we would have far more power over the government if we could withold funding. How does congress control the presidents actions? By witholding his funding?

    I wasnt talking race. Was race even insinuated or is that just the easiest way to discredit a point? Can't counter with reason so inject race. Were we not british citizens(regardless of race) first? And thanks for bringing up native americans, Who was it that stole their land by force? Was it a bunch of individual citizens, or was it the armies of the all powerfull government?

    So rebellion of the young has no merit, its just because they want to get the old? Instead of it being gods(did he write the laws) way to get them out of the house, its more like the old peoples way of getting them out of the house, since thats who's laws they are rebelling against.

    One of your whats was directed at the ponzii scheme comment, if social security isnt a ponzii scheme, what is it? The new investor paying off the old investor, isnt that in essence a ponzii scheme?

    Every evil in the government today was erradicated at the inception of our new government, well erradicated is a little strong, they were layed dormant but are now being revived by the unscrupulous and the mis-informed.

    As for your final statement, Could we please get some factual retorts, instead of playground antics?
     
  20. Sep 7, 2009 #19
    Why would anyone care what The Young Turks think? They're a couple of whiney, mouthy children sitting in their parents' basement.
     
  21. Sep 7, 2009 #20

    OmCheeto

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    Who said it hasn't?
    There are an infinite number of problems to be solved. I don't have the time to explain, because infinity is really big.
    So he was a mooch?
    I've been in debt since the day I bought my house. Having to go to work every day to pay off the mortgage is a pain, but it's better than being a quadriplegic in Calcutta. At least, that's how I rationalize it.
    a non-profit corporation.
    ok
    kind of like Reagan, who said the same thing, and yet increased spending left and right.
    Yes. I've defended your right to do so. (pat on back, pat on back)
    um. what?
    hmmm.... You might want to lay off the caffeine for a bit.

    Just chant my name for a few minutes: Ommmmmmm...... Cheeeeeee..... Toooooe......
    repeat ad infinitum.
     
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