# Chess puzzle

1. Sep 27, 2004

### janzizka

This is a chess/math puzzle I invented:

Consider a fully set up chess board (in starting position).

Invent a condition (new rule) in which black wins without either side making any moves.

Note: this problem has a really abstract and *topological* approach. :rofl:

JZ

2. Sep 27, 2004

### quasar987

I hope you post the solution here soon too.

3. Sep 27, 2004

### nolachrymose

Perhaps you should go into a little more depth about the content of the condition? I can think of a bunch of possible solutions off the top of my head, so a little clarification would help.

4. Sep 27, 2004

### janzizka

the condition is on the board, not the pieces (or moves).

I also have a spoiler, but I am more interested to hear your ideas with out a give away.

5. Sep 27, 2004

### T@P

Im a little confused though about exactly what I can do... I mean can I have a conditino like the board is slanted so the king falls off nd this signifies check mate? this can be done so only the white king falls...

Your conditions are still too general. Maybe you could come up with some more clarification...?

6. Sep 27, 2004

### janzizka

I am not considering the application of any physical forces (such as gravity)

7. Sep 27, 2004

### Gokul43201

Staff Emeritus
Yes, there are several possible solutions, and none that we come up with is likely what you have in mind.

Here's one : If any of the squares in the first two rows from the end are vacant, the player on that side loses (white plays first).

This condition is "on the board" and ensures that white loses, but is probably not what you want.

8. Sep 27, 2004

### humanino

This is still too vague !

identify opposite edges : white is mate.

9. Sep 27, 2004

### humanino

It works also with a Moebius strip :tongue2:

10. Sep 27, 2004

### humanino

OK, I guess that would be double mate ?
So identify the opposite edges without right to going through it on your turn ? A "virtual identification".

Last edited: Sep 27, 2004
11. Sep 27, 2004

### humanino

Inspired from Gokul : if any among rows 3 and 4 are not empty (5 and 6 for black) the corresponding king is mate

12. Sep 27, 2004

### humanino

Any king sitting on an odd row is mate

13. Sep 27, 2004

### Gokul43201

Staff Emeritus
humanino...it seems you are quite the expert on mating !

14. Sep 27, 2004

### Tom McCurdy

New Chess Rule: If you are black you win automatically at the start of a chess game

15. Sep 27, 2004

### humanino

You cheated ! No rule on the pieces ! Only rules one the board. Well, that is not more silly than what I wrote anyway :rofl:

16. Sep 27, 2004

### Tom McCurdy

I think the thing you may be thinking of is if the chess board was connected by the other end... kind of like an old video game where you go out one side and come in the other side. You allow the pieces to move backwards to the other end of the board and since white moves first white is in checkmate.... although its really more of stale mate since both pieces with be in checkmate ... (roughed out... sorry it is late.

17. Sep 27, 2004

### humanino

Here is another one : any player either touching a pieche sitting on a prime number row, or making any piece sitting on a prime number row looses the game.

18. Sep 27, 2004

### Tom McCurdy

ah, but the game must be over before you touch the pieces

19. Sep 27, 2004

### humanino

ok, I cheated

20. Sep 27, 2004

### Gokul43201

Staff Emeritus
I like this (though it begs some questions about 'what happened before') !

PS : I'm almost positive this is the correct answer as this makes the chessboard behave like a projective plane - and that's the "topological" thingy involved in it.

Last edited: Sep 27, 2004
21. Sep 28, 2004

### Chronos

White assumes normal starting position. Black assumes normal starting position with the following exceptions: queen's knight starting position is d3, king's knight starting position is f3.

22. Sep 28, 2004

### quasar987

Actually at the moment the game officially begins, white could stop the clock and tell the referee that his adverdary has made an illegal move because his King would be next to his own King. The referee agrees and white wins.

23. Sep 28, 2004

### janzizka

Tom McCurdy's reply was actually what I had in mind, though it is easier to phrase it as a chess game on a torus.
The solution with the mobius strip works as well.
It's true that both sides will be in checkmate, but in chess the first side which cannot move loses, and since white must go first, black wins.

24. Sep 28, 2004

### janzizka

That's true, and I hadn't thought of that.
But black hasn't exactly made an "illegal" move because it hasn't made any move at all, the board is just not set up correctly for playing on a torus.

25. Sep 28, 2004

### T@P

actually playing on a mobius strip or a cylinder would work too :)