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lucas_
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Is Chlorophyll something that is already thoroughly understood? But I still read some debates whether quantum processes were involved. This means we have not thoroughly understood Chlorophyll yet?
Outside my area of knowledge but "I read some debates ... " is not a helpful citation. Do you recall the context?lucas_ said:Is Chlorophyll something that is already thoroughly understood? But I still read some debates whether quantum processes were involved. This means we have not thoroughly understood Chlorophyll yet?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30966997The rapid response of photosynthetic organisms to fluctuations in ambient light intensity is incompletely understood at both the molecular and membrane levels. In this review, we describe research from our group over a 10-year period aimed at identifying the photophysical mechanisms used by plants, algae and mosses to control the efficiency of light harvesting by photosystem II on the seconds-to-minutes time scale. To complement the spectroscopic data, we describe three models capable of describing the measured response at a quantitative level. The review attempts to provide an integrated view that has emerged from our work, and briefly looks forward to future experimental and modelling efforts that will refine and expand our understanding of a process that significantly influences crop yields.
BillTre said:Quantum Mechanics is well outside my expertise, but it seems obvious that when you have photos interacting with chemical quantum effects will abound. The chemistry of the process is determined by the quantum properties of their component atoms and their interactions with photons will also be determined by their quantum properties.
Perhaps there are some particular quantum effects you are pondering.
I have heard of some "weird effects" like electrons bouncing around a local group of chlorophyll molecules, perhaps in a tunneling like manner.
However, I don't know much about that either, but I believe its standard in biochem texts.
Like @phinds said, your question could be more clear about your interest.
You do realize that your original question and this question have nothing to do with each other? It just seems weird to totally change the subject in your second post.lucas_ said:I'd like to know what happens to plants when it was left at basement and without any direct sunlights. Would artificial lights still trigger photosynthesis producing green leaves? Or would it be just pale leaves?
What kinds of photons chlorophyll needs?
Chlorophyll appears green because it absorbs light in the red and blue regions of the spectrum and reflects green light. Artificial lighting should be able to provide the proper wavelengths of light for plant growth, though this depends on the particular spectrum of light provided by the bulb. Lighting with high emission in the red and blue regions of the spectrum would be ideal.lucas_ said:I'd like to know what happens to plants when it was left at basement and without any direct sunlights. Would artificial lights still trigger photosynthesis producing green leaves? Or would it be just pale leaves?
What kinds of photons chlorophyll needs?
phinds said:You do realize that your original question and this question have nothing to do with each other? It just seems weird to totally change the subject in your second post.
Assuming this current question is actually the question you want answered, that's fine, I'm just saying that a different subject line and asking this question up front would have moved things toward an answer for you faster, without the irrelevant stuff that's gone on up to now. You might want to use the "report" button to ask a moderator to change the subject line for you.
Fair enough, but if your fundamental question is whether or not it works, the answer is a well-known empirical fact (it does) and therefore needs no consideration of whether or not it is understood. It works. Period.lucas_ said:It's connected because I'd like to know if Chlorophyll is already thoroughly understood. If it is not. Then it is possible Chlorophyll can still work even if the light is internal like from basements or photons that don't come from the sun?
Ygggdrasil said:Whether or not chlorophyll is well understood, how to grow plants indoors in the absence of sunlight is very well understood due to the cannabis industry.
BillTre said:Etiolation is what this process is called.
I think it varies among species as to how strong it is expressed.
BillTre said:The cells do that stuff (via their cellular processes), triggered by the present or absence of appropriate photons.
Chloroplasts are organelles that are inherited from the plant's parents.
The chlorophyll is made in them by non-remarkable cellular processes.
It is possible for chlorophyll to exist in complete darkness.lucas_ said:In complete darkness, it's not possible at all for any chlorophyll to exist?
BillTre said:It is possible for chlorophyll to exist in complete darkness.
Take a green plant, put it in the dark.
Look at it after a few minutes. It will still be green.
What is your source for this "weird knowledge" you are spouting?
Baluncore said:Preliminary reading;
General discussion of varieties and colour;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll#Photosynthesis
The colour when grown in darkness is here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll#Biosynthesis
The passing of electrons along the molecule is close to a “quantum” feature;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_transport_chainhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis#Photosynthetic_membranes_and_organelles
The mitochondria, like chloroplasts, are complex "industrial" mechanisms made from many large molecules. They function by moving small molecules.lucas_ said:Why is there no "quantum" feature in Mitochondria but only in Chlorophyll or Photosynthesis?
jim mcnamara said:I think there is an ESL issue:
Lucas - this is what you need to understand in case you missed it:
1. All green plants in the dark eventually die. Chlorophyll makes food for the plant from light. Plants can survive some part of a very long period of darkness before they die. They store food as they grow in normal light. This is how they live in the dark.
2. oat seeds planted in the dark and left in the dark will germinate, make short sprouts, and then die.
Why? Because they cannot make food.
3. plants have different needs for light. Pine trees like full sun. Azalea bushes like partial shade. Philodendron likes full shade - they can grow inside under house lighting, pine trees will not like this and will turn yellow and die.
4. Oats plants are grown for food. They are planted in wide open fields with no shade. They like it. So why would they like dark? Oats planted in the dark use up the food already stored in the seed to grow. When the food is gone the baby plants die.
5. Chlorophyll is made in tiny cells inside the plant cells. A cell within a cell. The tiny cell is called a chloroplast. Chloroplasts have their very own DNA, their own genetic information. The recipe to make chlorophyll is in those genes inside the chloroplast. The genes to make chlorophyll are turned on ONLY in light. So. For your baby oat plant to turn green, it has to be in sunlight. That is why your oat plants in the dark will not turn green and why they will die.
1) do you not think plants are "living things" ?lucas_ said:Why don't living things have chlorophyll too so they can eat directly photons and water only?
There ARE no plants in the deep ocean, just animal life forms, so your question is based on a false premise. You could have found this out with a simple Internet search.lucas_ said:For plants that grow underneath the oceans without any source of lights. How does the photosynthesis work? Or is it hydrosynthesis using the energy of water instead?
Baluncore said:The mitochondria, like chloroplasts, are complex "industrial" mechanisms made from many large molecules. They function by moving small molecules.
Chlorophyll is a molecule that has different energy states depending on the position of electrons. They function by moving electrons and photons. Photon colour and the possible electron energy states in the molecule are quantum effects.
Where did you get that information? You need to provide a precise reference.lucas_ said:There are said to be coherence as quantum signature for chlorophyll. Is this definite or maybe just misunderstood processes? And may I know the arguments for this misunderstood dynamics that *could* just be classical?
Baluncore said:Where did you get that information? You need to provide a precise reference.
Oh, good grief. Here's we've been trying to give you good answers and now we find out you're wasting our time with new age woo woo BS. Very frustrating.lucas_ said:Please debate with me and not just close the thread because it doesn't belong to the books. I can prove it we have etheric body and the sun has etheric emanation that our body use. My task is to understand the biochemistry and biology of it. So if you agree not all is completely known yet, then help me unravel the biology of it which needs multidisciplinary expertise that can only be discovered together.
phinds said:Oh, good grief. Here's we've been trying to give you good answers and now we find out you're wasting our time with new age woo woo BS. Very frustrating.
This could be nice for you, but nothing we base our discussions on.lucas_ said:Me and my friends have etheric vision.
Chlorophyll is a pigment found in plants that gives them their green color. It is essential for photosynthesis, the process by which plants convert sunlight into energy. Chlorophyll absorbs light and uses it to produce oxygen and glucose, which are necessary for plant growth and survival.
While we have a good understanding of the basic functions and structure of chlorophyll, there is still much we do not know. Scientists are constantly researching and discovering new information about this complex pigment and its role in plant biology.
There are several types of chlorophyll, with the most common being chlorophyll a and chlorophyll b. These two types have slightly different chemical structures and absorb light at different wavelengths, allowing plants to capture a wider range of light energy for photosynthesis.
Yes, there are still many unanswered questions about chlorophyll. Some areas of research include understanding the role of other pigments in photosynthesis, the effects of environmental factors on chlorophyll production, and the potential uses of chlorophyll in medicine and technology.
Chlorophyll plays a crucial role in the environment by producing oxygen and supporting the growth of plants, which are essential for sustaining life on Earth. It also has potential health benefits for humans, such as antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties, but more research is needed to fully understand its impact on human health.