Choices

  • Thread starter gcn_zelda
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  • #26
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Originally posted by Bernardo
OK. Sorry. I don't mean to go on and on - it's just something thats close to me. If you're tired of it or think I'm soap-boxing let me know. I have no intention of doing that.
Not at all, I think you made perfectly good sense in the post before last; which is why I mentioned the point that you had stated, in my own post. I just figured you might have forgotten that particular point.

What my point is, and how this all fits into 'choices' is like this.

What happens after death, happens to everyone, the same way, no matter what is believed. There can only be one true answer to this question. To think that just because WE believe a certain way determines what actually seems foolish to me.

It Athiest's are right and we are just matter then all of us vanish at death, if it is reincarnetion or Heaven/ hell then that's the answer for all of us.

In this life we need to choose what we think is the answer - we can't bring it into being by believing it. This is why I continue my search - and expose myself to all forms of world views - to debate and consider all options.

If I'm wrong I need to find this out, isn't this the goal of everyone - make the right choice?
This is certainly the open-minded and rational thing to do. And I agree that our personal belief cannot change the reality of the matter. However, our choices would indeed be important if we haven't made up our mind on what happens after death, since we might believe that there is no hellfire, but then find out that there is too late (though this is a ridiculous idea, IMO, it seemed a fitting analogy).
 
  • #27
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I need to take some time here.

I'm going to work on a "logic train" for Christianity. I've never attempted such a thing but I can visualize it sitting here.

I'd like to see what kind of feedback it gets. (Is this highjacking the thread?)
 
  • #28
FZ+
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Case #1 societies through history have shown their inability to maintain any kind of enduring standard. An empire may begin pure and noble but always seems to end in moral decay & coruption, rome & the soviet union for example. So it does appear that society is unable to determine this consistently.
Er.. Since when did any moral code exhibit this consistency? Even in the case of religious laws, their nature has shifted and evolved. For example, from the pseudo-survivalist values of the OT to the idealist/socialist/libertarian attitudes of the NT. Special casing, unfair laws and so on have defined our own senses - man, especially when emotional, never takes consistency into account.

Case #2 if individuals are responsible for this determination and everyone can decide for themselves then this is just a recipe for chaos. Check out a mob after a sporting event, or during a riot when people are left up to their own - things go bad quickly.
It has always been noted that a mob develops "a mind of its own". This is the sort of anti-altruist argument that develops 2 into 1. When you are in a mob, do you conceive of any general wrongness in which you are doing? No - self-interest expands into group thinking, and group thinking into social codes, which can be either glorious or despicable depending on how much you share it.

What is democracy, but a milling mob, a riot of the masses?



I may be doing devil's advocate in some of the above, but...
 
  • #29
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OK FZ+ keeping me on my toes I see. I need to take a short tangent here - I love this site, nobody just accepts anything - very refressing.

well as far as case #2 goes (individual moral standard) I couldn't think of another example as to when society could let this happen other than I riot, I realized it was a poor example and now have been told it was.

I do believe that if there were a society on earth that didn't have laws but left Right & wrong up to individuals to decide with absolutely no standard or guidance - that would be chaos.

As people we have trouble agreeing what is 'right' on a pizza - how could a hypothetical society like this ever work?

As far as God being different in the OT & NT, He isn't but that would require quite a bit of typing on my part, and honestly grasshopper - you haven't grasped the pebble out of my hand yet.
 
  • #30
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Your right it truly doesn't matter whether i believe in god or not. The truth is it truly doesn't matter whether anyone believes in god or not. They only absolute way we can experience the truth is in death.
Right and Wrong are inventions simple as that. Is it wrong to kill an animal for the fun of it? is it wrong to kill an animal and eat all the meat and recycle the bones and fur? Is it wrong to pluck flowers from the ground to give to your girl friend? Is it wrong to chop a tree down for fire wood during a cold winter? Is it wrong to chop trees down for paper to write down history?
The point is just about anything we do can some way be seen as wrong as much as it can be seen as right. Because ultimately i believe that life does what life does to survive and that is selfish. But to survive is also to do right and wrong. Right for taking care of yourself and wrong for taking care of yourself. We are living conundrums.
 
  • #31
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Your right it truly doesn't matter whether i believe in god or not. The truth is it truly doesn't matter whether anyone believes in god or not. They only absolute way we can experience the truth is in death.

But if there is no afterlife then truth will never be experienced will it. This, to me, is a very bleak outlook.

We are living conundrums.

Which is why I am glad that we do not decide morality, God did, He is not a conundrum.

The confusion isn't over if something is right or wrong, it's if you are willing to accept the standard.

For example - downloading music, is it right or wrong? Have you been given any right to the song? What is it about you that deserves it for free? Have you ever heard the music industry tell you it doesn't want you to do this and done it anyway? The bottom line is downloading music is stealing - the confusion and debate are people trying to justify stealing. You know this at your gut level everytime you click on a song.
 
  • #32
Another God
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Originally posted by Bernardo
What is it about you that deserves it for free?
Do you ever listen to the radio?

I get your point though.

But I wish to just jump in at this point and express my doubts as to there being a universal 'right' and 'wrong' for any given situation.
 
  • #33
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If there is a god, in my view god is already dead. perfect can not exist with us. only can exist without any other existance.
 
  • #34
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Another god-
Do you ever listen to the radio?

Wow - all this and you're funny too.

But I wish to just jump in at this point and express my doubts as to there being a universal 'right' and 'wrong' for any given situation.

Have you ever heard of the 'Golden Rule'?

Thanos
If there is a god, in my view god is already dead. perfect can not exist with us. only can exist without any other existance.

You are very close to my beliefs on this, But it's flipped over backwards. We can not exsist with Him. God is not dead - we are, dead and lost within our own self fulfilling chaos.

He doesn't exsist on the same level with us any more than you would exsist with a fish in a fish tank. (very poor analogy here). The tank can get messy - it in no way changes your life. The key lies in realizing we are messed up and He is not.
 
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  • #35
Another God
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Originally posted by Bernardo
Have you ever heard of the 'Golden Rule'?
Of course I have. Heard of it, and quickly realised that notmany people actually want what I want.
 
  • #36
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I wouldn't mind living in Austrailia right now it's -25C here.

But you know what I was getting at - It's more than just a good saying, it works well.
 
  • #37
Another God
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I promise you all...sooon....very soon, i will post my theory on ethics.

PS: It starts with 'I' and ends with 'I', and it describes humanity perfectly :wink:
 
  • #38
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Originally posted by Another God
I promise you all...sooon....very soon, i will post my theory on ethics.

PS: It starts with 'I' and ends with 'I', and it describes humanity perfectly :wink:
I can't think of any word that begins with an "I" and ends with an "I". What is it? When will you post this thread?
 
  • #39
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I've also been waiting for this post.
 
  • #40
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I can think of some words that begin and end with i. But the key is it "describes humanity perfectly."

I thought of a couple but one stuck out in my mind perfectly and that had a latin origin. It is shown first:

a)ignes fatui
b)incubi
c)intagli
d)Iraqi =)
and
e)iwi


The last two I'm not really sure why the would be described as "humanity" and "perfectly" but they both ended with 'i'. That's all I got. Anyone else think that these words could fall under an insubordiante category, perhaps or not likely of Another God's theory?
 
  • #41
Another God
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I'm sorry, I'm not going to post it until I am happy that I have written it well. It's taking a long time, so don't hold your breath. It contains so many interwoven ideas that it is had to write a flowing presentation of it... You know how you need to say one thing, but in order to say that, you need to have already presented another idea, but you couldn't possibly have said that idea before having cleared up another idea etc...
 
  • #42
Shinmyoken
I believe that every choice that is made has the potential to have long-term consequences. Where you dine for the evening may affect your future. It may lead you to meet your soul mate which in turn will cause a wonderful family to exist in the future. Im not saying every choice you make has this effect, Im saying it has the potential to do so.
 

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