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PerennialII

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The question is still valid (and unanswered) - why are the muslim nations (governments and people) spending a tiny fraction of what western nations are spending? Do they not care?

A good question, overall the west is able to contribute more so I don't see it going 1 : 1 in any case, are we just to take this such that the richer middle eastern countries are so stuck in their own national problems ?
 

Bilal

Actually, the people of Saudi Arabia (not the government) paid 82 Millions Dollars in one day to one of the charitable organizations for supporting the victims of this catastrophe.

These governments are dictators and they do not represent the nations. The problem of charitable organizations in the Islamic world is the American laws after 11/9. Most of these organizations lost its money and others closed, especially in Saudi Arabia.

Here are some points:

- I did not say that USA is evil!! I am scientific researcher and I know the contribution of American in human civilization. The topic is about the endless wars of the neoconservatives and their crusade in our region. If you think that Bush, Cheney , Rice, … are America , then it is your problem.

- For comparison ; We should calculate the fraction and ratios not using absolute numbers, you can not compare tiny nations with large country by absolute numbers:


USA

Population: 294 million
GNI per capita: US $37,610

Saudi Arabia

Population: 24.9 million

GNI per capita: US $8,530


(294 million X US $37,610 )÷ (24.9 million X US $8,530) = ~ 50 times

USA paid 350 Millions
Saudi Arabia paid 30 Millions cash + 10 Millions to earth quakes centers in Indian Ocean + (at least 82 Millions) from the people = 122 Millions

350 Millions from USA ÷ 122 Millions from Saudi Arabia = only 3 times!!!

Also you can compare the 350 Dollars with the 180 Billions Dollars spent in the war in Iraq till now!! USA pays regularly for military maintenance of the weapons in Iraq 3.5 Billion Dollars per month. This means all what paid for Tsunami victims are less than the costs of three days in Iraq!!

• No MDW
• No link with 11/9
• Do not give chance for UN to complete their work
• Bombing the country regularly for 13 years and complete economical sanction on the nation, cause complete destruction of economical and social life.

• you call the Iraqi who defends their country from foreign armies as terrorists! And justify daily murdering of civilians and families by the ‘’terrorized soldiers’’ who live thousands Kms far from their country in very hostile environment.


After all of that: You call it; war for freedom!!
 
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Bilal

Dear Friends,

Please do not change my words! Just read carefully the discussion again ….. Your conclusions on part of sentences that I said are far from reality. klusener explained well my posts.

Many members in Islamic and Arabic discussion forums call me pro American and some of them insult me because I reject to generalize against American people …. It is funny to observe that some people here want to change my words to show that I am anti American.

I am not silly to generalize against any society. Also it is clear what I mean in my posts.

Suppose that USA gave billions to the poor people around the world, this does not justify committing such crimes against other nations.

Germany in 30s was the most advance country in the world. They developed many basic instruments still used in different fields of technology … such great German contribution in human civilisation does not excuse their political and military actions in that time , which destroyed the world.

phatmonky said:
……………..... But you just said yourself you are happy with Saddam,…...
selfAdjoint said:
Bilal, why do you say we have no heart for the kids when we point out that the moral issues in this confrontation, ......
russ_watters said:
With statements like this, it is clear that you will believe whatever you want to believe and even direct evidence to the contrary will not convince you.………………..
 
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Bilal said:
Dear Friends,

Please do not change my words! Just read carefully the discussion again ….. Your conclusions on part of sentences that I said are far from reality. klusener explained well my posts.

Many members in Islamic and Arabic discussion forums call me pro American and some of them insult me because I reject to generalize against American people …. It is funny to observe that some people here want to change my words to show that I am anti American.

I am not silly to generalize against any society. Also it is clear what I mean in my posts.

Suppose that USA gave billions to the poor people around the world, this does not justify committing such crimes against other nations.

Germany in 30s was the most advance country in the world. They developed many basic instruments still used in different fields of technology … such great German contribution in human civilisation does not excuse their political and military actions in that time , which destroyed the world.
How did I twist your words?! YOU SAID YOU WERE HAPPY WITH SADDAM:

Dear Bushisems,

Please, ask your army to leave Middle East, we are happy with (your old boy) Saddam and other dictators (also your boys!), no need to liberate us!! We do not want better life …..
 

Bilal

hmmmm

I directed my speech to Bushisms who using the evil Saddam as excuse occupying Iraq. They also claim after every crime: We still better than Saddam.

In other words, Hell of Saddam is better than the heaven of Bushism!!

This means Both are bad , but chose the ''less evil''.

phatmonky said:
How did I twist your words?! YOU SAID YOU WERE HAPPY WITH SADDAM:
 
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Bilal said:
- I did not say that USA is evil!! I am scientific researcher and I know the contribution of American in human civilization. The topic is about the endless wars of the neoconservatives and their crusade in our region. If you think that Bush, Cheney , Rice, … are America , then it is your problem.
Well... technically they are :rolleyes:. The outcome of the most recent election is proof of their victory. That, combined with a Republican majority in congress, and the possibility of appointees to the Supreme Court, means that their views are representative of those who elected them (a bit of a generalization).

Bilal said:
After all of that: You call it; war for freedom!!
Bilal, not all Americans are pleased with the Bush Administration's foreign policy. America itself is divided and highly polarized on this issue as well as others.
 

Astronuc

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My heart aches for the little girl in OP. I would wish to give her (and siblings?) sanctuary and peace in my home, and protect her and her family from the cruelty that has been visited upon them.
 
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Gruesome !! I wish death to all American soldiers/murderers,American government and their supporters. !!!
There is simply no excuse for what they did to those people.
 

Evo

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Settle down Spender.
 
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Sorry about that. :frown:
 

Gokul43201

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Bilal said:
Saudi Arabia paid 30 Millions cash + 10 Millions to earth quakes centers in Indian Ocean + (at least 82 Millions) from the people = 122 Millions
In the case of Saudi Arabia you considered contributions from all sources (Govt, private, etc.), so being a scientific researcher, I guess you did the same calculation for the US too, right ?

USA paid 350 Millions
What, you didn't ?!! Ooh, that's not fair now, is it ?

Here, I can help some :

US Govt : 350 million

Private Donations : 650 million

Costs of operation, services, fuel consumption, maintenance, etc. of one Carrier Group and one Marine Expeditionary Unit : several millions of dollars per day, but I don't know the numbers. Some of these costs would be borne anyway, but at a minimum this will cost an additional 100 million a month.

But this is not directly pertinent to the thread. I ask all you folks who think the US armed services don't care if they kill innocent civilians (and take them to hospitals only if there are cameras around) : what does the US have to gain by being murderous devils ? How does it serve their self-interest to kill innocents, anger the public, weaken their support base, strengthen the enemies and in general, make everything much harder for themselves ?

Could it be that these things happen despite their efforts to minimize it ? Could it be that the nature of the conflict makes it virtually impossible to not have civilian casualty ? Could it be that seeing graphic visual images has caused you to react emotionally rather than reasonably ? Could it be that all the journalists and news cameras in the area tend to travel with the armed forces, and none want to hang out with the insurgents ? Could it help you consider both sides of the story, if you saw pictures and videos of civilians killed by insurgent attacks, bombings, and beheadings ?

I certainly do not contend that all of the above are always true, but I guess you'd answer 'no' to every one of them ?
 
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russ_watters

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Gokul43201 said:
Private Donations : 650 million
And that doesn't include corporate donations, which are substantial as well.
 
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"This so-called ill treatment and torture in detention centers, stories of which were spread everywhere...were not, as some assumed, inflicted methodically, but were excesses committed by individual prison guards, their deputies, and men who laid violent hands on the detainees."
Rudolf Hoess, SS commandant, Auschwitz.
source
 

russ_watters

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Burnsys concedes! Well, good game, fellas...
 

Evo

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russ_watters said:
And that doesn't include corporate donations, which are substantial as well.
The company I work for is contributing 4 million - 2 million up front, 1 milion in employee donation matching and another million over the next year.
 

Gokul43201

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Pfizer : $10 million cash + $25 million in healthcare products
Pepsi : $1 million cash + water and other bottled drinks
Microsoft : $3 million cash

Many large and medium sized companies (Intel, Cisco, Time Warner) are matching employee donations in addition to their contributions

Two weeks ago, I heard the total from Corporate donations was about $200 million. What it is now, I haven't found out.
 

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