Classical paths and bubble chambers

In summary, a bubble chamber is a device used to study the behavior of particles in a liquid or gas. In a bubble chamber, charged particles are allowed to interact freely and are typically widely separated from each other. This allows for the study of the dynamics of a bubble chamber, which is of sufficient scale that classical mechanics will work just fine.
  • #1
jackle
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It is often said that electrons do not follow classical paths, especially in the context of electrons in atoms etc. I have absolutely no problem with this, as I do have a academic background in physics (but extremely rusty).

Non-classical paths, uncertainty etc. being the case, what is then being shown in a bubble chamber if not a classical path? I am a bit embarrassed that I don't know the answer. Is it just that the uncertainty is too small to be relevant in a bubble chamber? I suppose bubbles in a liquid aren't exactly accurate measurements of anything right? So when a particle interacts to make bubbles, what have we actually measured? What happens to the wave function?
 
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  • #2
jackle said:
It is often said that electrons do not follow classical paths, especially in the context of electrons in atoms etc. I have absolutely no problem with this, as I do have a academic background in physics (but extremely rusty).

Non-classical paths, uncertainty etc. being the case, what is then being shown in a bubble chamber if not a classical path? I am a bit embarrassed that I don't know the answer. Is it just that the uncertainty is too small to be relevant in a bubble chamber? I suppose bubbles in a liquid aren't exactly accurate measurements of anything right? So when a particle interacts to make bubbles, what have we actually measured? What happens to the wave function?

But in a bubble chamber, the charge particles (not necessarily just electrons) are now interacting with many other particles. It is also considered to be "free" particles and is not encumbered by the usual boundary conditions we get in atoms. They are also usually widely separated from each other (no significant wavefunction overlap). So other than the coulombic interactions, they are non-correlated.

Also note that in electron particle accelerators, the electrons are also handled as classical particles. So such treatement isn't unusual.

Zz.
 
  • #3
It says in Wikipedia that you can't measure the kinetic energy or velocity in a bubble chamber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_chamber

Do you know if this is because of the uncertainty principle?
 
  • #4
jackle said:
It says in Wikipedia that you can't measure the kinetic energy or velocity in a bubble chamber.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_chamber

Do you know if this is because of the uncertainty principle?

No, it's because all it can measure are "tracks", i.e. in where and in which direction the particle is moving. If the bubble chamber is also in a magnetic field that bends the charged particle, then it can measure its energy. To measure energy or velocity, you have to SET UP an experiment that measures those quantities. A single measurement does not imply the measurement of ALL properties. This has nothing to do with the HUP.

Zz.
 
  • #5
the dynamics of a bubble chamber are of sufficient scale that classical mechanics will work just fine
 
  • #6
OK. Thanks. :blushing:
 
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What is a classical path in physics?

A classical path in physics is the path followed by a particle or object under the influence of classical mechanics, which is based on Newton's laws of motion. It describes the trajectory of the particle or object as it moves through space and time.

What is a bubble chamber and how does it work?

A bubble chamber is a device used in particle physics to detect and track the paths of charged particles. It works by filling a large container with a superheated liquid, such as liquid hydrogen or helium. When a charged particle passes through the liquid, it ionizes the molecules, causing them to vaporize and form bubbles along the particle's path. The bubbles can then be photographed and analyzed to determine the path of the particle.

What is the significance of classical paths in particle physics?

In particle physics, classical paths are used to study the behavior of particles and their interactions. By tracking the paths of particles in a bubble chamber or other detector, scientists can determine important properties such as mass, charge, and spin. This information can then be used to understand the fundamental forces and laws that govern the behavior of particles.

Can classical mechanics fully explain the behavior of particles in a bubble chamber?

No, classical mechanics alone cannot fully explain the behavior of particles in a bubble chamber. This is because at the subatomic level, particles behave according to the principles of quantum mechanics, which is a more accurate and comprehensive theory. However, classical mechanics is still useful in understanding and describing the macroscopic behavior of particles in a bubble chamber.

What other techniques are used to study particle paths besides bubble chambers?

Besides bubble chambers, other techniques used to study particle paths include cloud chambers, spark chambers, and wire chambers. These all involve detecting the ionization or other effects of particles as they pass through a medium, and then using this information to reconstruct the path of the particle. Other modern methods, such as particle accelerators and detectors, also use sophisticated technology to study and track particle paths.

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