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Common subconscious force?

  1. Jan 11, 2004 #1
    Collective subconscious force?

    I have posted this on forums in the past, and gotten some interesting results.
    I figured I would give it a shot here and see what happens...

    Basically, I think neither fate nor true chaos can exist.
    Our futures are determined by a matrix of interconnected coincidences that manifest in the "force" of a collective subconscious.
    (maybe "determined" is not the right word... Keep that in mind, and read on...)

    This is not yet a fully formed philosophy or ideology in my mind.
    More like a jumble of related thoughts in need of organization and further thought.

    I am fairly sure that someone must have already thought of this (or something like it), but I have never personally read it.
    So I decided to post it here, get some feedback, and, if it does already exist as a formed philosophy, maybe someone can educate me and give me something to read.
    If not, maybe it can be scrutinized and questioned here to help me form the idea.

    I do, however, know what it isn't...
    What I am talking about is not the Hindi Akasha.
    I don't see it as a dimension where all this information is stored and we can walk along this plane or access it to read or manipulate it.
    I am also not talking about Jung's collective unconscious, in which we are all born with an inherited innate sense and understanding of what has been known before in our subconscious mind.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If something is "Destined" to happen, that means it has been decided before hand, and nothing you can do will change that.
    If you CAN change it, is that Fate?

    How is it really anything more than Cause and Effect?

    If I drop this glass from my roof onto the cement it will break.
    Would you say that that glass was destined to break?
    If it were, that would imply that I had no choice in the matter of going up to my roof and dropping that glass at that particular place and time.
    Otherwise the destiny would not come to fruition, therefore, destiny would not be possible.
    I am open to suggestions, however, I honestly can't even conceive fate and free will coexisting.
    Not without a deity looking over.
    No matter how commonplace or extreme the example is.

    This is how I look at it...
    Every choice you make in life is directly and indirectly related to every choice you have ever made and every choice you are yet to make, along with every choice everyone you have ever come into contact with has ever made or will ever make.
    Take the 6 degrees of separation and multiply it by a few billion.
    Yes, it can go to quite an extreme.
    You could sit and find a way that if Leonardo Davinci's mother turned left on Maple street rather than right, then Hitler would never have been born.

    But you can also look at it in a very simple close-up view.
    If your mother had never met you father our child would never have been born.
    If our child was destined to save the life a drowning woman, that woman dies, and fate crumbles at its core.
    The only other option I can see is that if SOME things are destined to happen.
    Like, it doesn't matter WHO saves that drowning woman, as long as she is saved, because she is pregnant with the person that will bring world peace.
    How could that happen without someone (or something) with intellect, intention and knowledge of the future watching over her and protecting her?

    I often sit in awe over the interconnectedness of all our lives.
    It, in itself, is something to be worshipped and praised.
    Every minute decision that any person anywhere in the world makes (even subconsciously) affects me in some way.
    That force is more powerful than any God ever conceived by man.
    The world has 6 billion people on it and many billions more who have lived in the millions of years in our past.
    If you go back far enough in time, it is conceivable that a single dust mote 20 billion years ago, if caught in a different breeze than it was caught in, could have stopped the Earth from even existing.
    The most beautiful and intricate spider web ever spun pales in comparison.
    It isn't random.
    It isn't fate either.
    It is coincidence.
    An intricate matrix of interconnected coincidences whose future is not built yet, and completely changes every moment of every second, and will continue until time no longer exists.
    The mere thought of it never fails to make me shiver.
    It makes me feel incredibly small and insignificant and as powerful as a God at the same time.
    I wouldn't want to live in the world if it were any other way.
    I couldn't live if I didn't believe in free will.

    I think that every person is nothing more than a result of all their experiences added to the root being (soul, Id, true self... whatever term you want to use here) of who they are.

    All you do and say, somehow affects those around you.
    Sometimes it is a minor effect, sometimes a profound effect.
    All your experiences shape how you think, how you view the world, how you act and react in circumstances etc.
    Most of your experiences involve other people (directly or indirectly).
    Now take a step back...
    The people that have influenced you in some way (everyone you have ever met) have all been influenced by all the people they have met and the experiences they have had in the past.
    Now take another step back and look in the other direction...
    Every thing you do, every decision you make, every thought and idea you have (if it has been expressed in some way, even subconsciously) will affect countless people around you in your countless experiences to come.
    Picture each of them as a ripple in an immense pool of water.
    Now, just look at the ripples alone.
    All of them influencing and affecting each other in some way or another.
    The bigger the initial splash was, the more resilience it has, the more it affects other ripples, the longer it lives.

    Those ripples have a life of their own.
    They go on and on forever.
    They affect every other ripple that was there in the pool already.
    They will affect every ripple that will come in the future.
    No one can know what other ripples are yet to come, but each ripple to come is, to some degree, affected or entirely determined by the ripples that came before affecting the person who will be making this new ripple.

    That collection of infinite ripples (some which have been there since the beginning of time) does not have intention, nor does it have control over itself but it has an immense control over our actions and view of the world and all the events that will occur in the future.
    It has a force over (or as part of) reality.
    It is immortal and inevitable.
    Your actions, and even thoughts, have an effect on these ripples, and these ripples have an effect on everyone in the world.
    This collection of ripples can be seen as a "common subconsciousness", in a way.

    This common subconscious force, could very well be viewed a God of sorts.

    Without this common subconscious force having cognizance and intention... without it having knowledge of what ripple there are to come... there can't be pre-determined fate.
    But there is cause and effect, not simple chaos.
    Chaos is not possible because everything is affected by everything else.
    Nothing you have ever done, have you done without being influenced in some way by this common subconsciousness.

    It makes me feel insignificant because it makes me feel like a part of a whole rather than an individual.
    However, knowing the immense impact I can have with a single thought or idea, makes me feel powerful.
    Also, knowing that my ideas could live forever in this collection of ripples, in a way, makes me immortal.

    I'm rambling, I know.
    But, like I said, I need to try and collect all my thoughts on this in an easy to explain, succinct collection.

    If it makes you think at all, and makes you reconsider what you believe, then it has had an effect on you and the way you think.
    That effect is proof of it being true, no?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 12, 2004 #2
    i agree

    in general, i subscribe to the same concepts.

    MAY I MAKE A MOTION?
    can we have a separate heading, such as 'the phylosophical probability theory'?

    therein we could explore, refine, discuss and perhaps develop some acceptable evidence that this is how we function on all levels.

    i'll post my specific comments later.


    peace,
     
  4. Jan 12, 2004 #3
    first portion

    RAVEN: If something is "Destined" to happen, that means it has been decided before hand, and nothing you can do will change that.
    If you CAN change it, is that Fate?

    How is it really anything more than Cause and Effect?

    If I drop this glass from my roof onto the cement it will break.
    Would you say that that glass was destined to break?
    If it were, that would imply that I had no choice in the matter of going up to my roof and dropping that glass at that particular place and time.
    Otherwise the destiny would not come to fruition, therefore, destiny would not be possible.
    I am open to suggestions, however, I honestly can't even conceive fate and free will coexisting.
    Not without a deity looking over.
    No matter how commonplace or extreme the example is

    DRUNK: from the top.

    Destiny and fate fail to create any reason for living. If, it is all scripted, why bother trying, exploring or functioning in any way.

    If you drop the glass, there is 99% chance that it will break. Within freewill, you can decide to not drop the glass. So, we look at our next moment and can see/fell/sense the highest PROBABLE moment, which is not destiny or fate. Within freewill I can instantly echange that probable moment into a different possibility

    One_raven: This is how I look at it...
    Every choice you make in life is directly and indirectly related to every choice you have ever made and every choice you are yet to make, along with every choice everyone you have ever come into contact with has ever made or will ever make.
    Take the 6 degrees of separation and multiply it by a few billion.
    Yes, it can go to quite an extreme.
    You could sit and find a way that if Leonardo Davinci's mother turned left on Maple street rather than right, then Hitler would never have been born.


    Drunk: I agree on the human/physical level because we are focused in linear time-space. I suspect that it is much more sophisticated than cause and effect.



    One-raven: But you can also look at it in a very simple close-up view.
    If your mother had never met you father our child would never have been born.
    If our child was destined to save the life a drowning woman, that woman dies, and fate crumbles at its core.
    The only other option I can see is that if SOME things are destined to happen.
    Like, it doesn't matter WHO saves that drowning woman, as long as she is saved, because she is pregnant with the person that will bring world peace.
    How could that happen without someone (or something) with intellect, intention and knowledge of the future watching over her and protecting her?

    Drunk: what if our soul and those of others agree to work-on or experience a particular probability thread? This could OR could not include that possibility of a child being born that would bring world peace. This would depend on how the infinite probability threads of all the people in the world at that particular time interplay. As more and more people envision a world peace the odds of the child fulfilling his goal increase. As more and more people consider violence as an answer the odds diminish.

    I believe that all of us are in contact on the cosmic or hyper-conscious level. We may not have explicit conversations, but transmit our desires, goals and intents. We join others and they join us, combining our energies to create the reality that best suits our purpose(s). to me, the mass reality is our joint effort, even tho, we have our own personal, individual reality, nestled within.

    It can even get a little more complicated. What if those loving and desiring peace end up with a peaceful world experience. Those on the fence, ‘gee I like the idea, but what if I am attacked?’, would have an ambiguous world peace experience. Those that believe that being aggressive equates to violence, experience a violent world.

    My probability construct is that we will individually experience what our expectations, beliefs etc create. At the same time we all contribute our energy to create the shared physical reality for us to work with and within.


    More later.


    Peace,
     
  5. Jan 23, 2004 #4
    I'm back, sorry this got away from me

    one_raven: I often sit in awe over the interconnectedness of all our lives. It, in itself, is something to be worshipped and praised.
    Every minute decision that any person anywhere in the world makes (even subconsciously) affects me in some way.

    drunk: I must agree, the butterfly effect, thingy. This is where i digress from the traditional version of a god. when i see the metaphysical effects of joined consciousnesses, i am almost 100% convinced that we create the reality; physical and otherwise.


    one_raven: An intricate matrix of interconnected coincidences whose future is not built yet, and completely changes every moment of every second, and will continue until time no longer exists.
    The mere thought of it never fails to make me shiver.
    It makes me feel incredibly small and insignificant and as powerful as a God at the same time.
    I wouldn't want to live in the world if it were any other way.
    I couldn't live if I didn't believe in free will.........It makes me feel insignificant because it makes me feel like a part of a whole rather than an individual.
    However, knowing the immense impact I can have with a single thought or idea, makes me feel powerful.
    Also, knowing that my ideas could live forever in this collection of ripples, in a way, makes me immortal.

    drunk: the secret is to understand that our contribution to the overall universe is as important as any other existence. i suspect, that we are an aspect of 'consciosness' that is an aspect of a greater 'something'. that something belongs to another, etc. etc.
    my existence is as important to my consciousness as my brain is important to my body. all parts are equally valid with differing roles.
    the matrix of consciousness works for me. is it a hologram? i dunno, that analogy doesn't work for me.

    peace,
     
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