# News Communism and your condo co-op

1. Mar 18, 2005

### Staff: Mentor

I was reading that China/Gas thread - the OP mentioned conservation. Conservation for the sake of conservation does not work in the real world, but it got me thinking about specific examples of this.

I live in a condo and I deal with them often in my job as an HVAC engineer. How to split-up energy bills is a huge issue that is generally not dealt with well. In my condo, its just water, but in a lot of condos, the heat and air conditioning are paid for by the cooperative and the cost is divided evenly between the tenants. Sounds good in principle, but the problem is that the tenants all know that if they waste energy, the cost gets distributed among the other tenants (and why should I conserve if my neighbor won't?). As a result, energy usage/costs in condos are often double what they should be.

The point is, solutions for a pretty wide variety of problems, from energy/pollution to economics, to politics need to appeal to the self-interests of the parties involved. For the example above, its as simple as giving everyone a meter.

Now, that said, pollution is a toughie because it is impossible to make someone directly responsible for/affected by their own pollution. There has to be a cooperative agreement between countries, and resuting laws imposed in each nation to solve that problem.

[/random thoughts]

2. Mar 18, 2005

### misskitty

This is interesting.

3. Mar 18, 2005

### Pengwuino

You should seen the forum im from. Wacko commies in there. They say in communism, you can have whatever you desire. Oh and one says "in communism, we wont have evil capitalist destructive inventions such as slavery, empirialism, the internal combustion engine, destroyed forests, etc". There was a huge list. Funny how we can have whatever we want but it wouldnt hurt the enviornment at all :-/

4. Mar 18, 2005

Staff Emeritus
Technical term: Tragedy of the Commons. And to think, some economists claim it never actually existed!

5. Mar 19, 2005

6. Mar 19, 2005

### Staff: Mentor

Thanks - I didn't know there was a term for it.

7. Mar 19, 2005

### Smurf

This scenario reminds me of the hypothetical situation "If you were in a prison with your sister and if you both pushed a button you'd both die.. ect" I don't need to explain the whole thing.

8. Mar 20, 2005

9. Mar 20, 2005

### misskitty

You've got a point. Little bit beyond radical is what the people from your other forum sound like. I had no idea communism is anything we wanted...sounds similar to anarchy...

10. Mar 20, 2005

### misskitty

SelfAdjoint, I had no idea there even was a term for that. How could economists claim it never exsisted? Its right there infront of their face.

11. Mar 20, 2005

### Pengwuino

Pff, they say anarchy is even better! "No government or higher authority to tell you what you can and cant do". And for some reason the more liberal people on the forum seem to approve of them adn tell them they are right.

Oh and , according to them, "the soviet union was communist when they won teh space race... but the soviet union was never communist... but the soviets wre communist when they were the military jugernaut... but the soviets were never communist". I think there finally sticking to "the soviet union was never true communists" viewpoint.

12. Mar 20, 2005

### misskitty

Uh-huh. Where are most of these people from? Because I doubt if they have experienced anarchy they would still support it the way that they do.

13. Mar 20, 2005

### Pengwuino

US universities of course. Well, one supposedly "graduated" last semester (chico state? Lol). Maybe foreigners do have a point when they say "ignorant americans" lol. But actually, 1/2 of them are from Britain come to think of it.

14. Mar 20, 2005

### misskitty

Hmm, why would someone from the US advocate such an idea?

15. Mar 20, 2005

### misskitty

EDIT: that was not meant sarcastically or mean or anything. Its a serious question.

16. Mar 20, 2005

### Pengwuino

I dunno... but give me a few pamphlets and 1-sided stories and i can convince a college student of anything.

17. Mar 20, 2005

### misskitty

Lol. I believe you. The same could be said for some people I go to school with. Why would you only settle for one side of the story? Seriously, someone with half a brain and an ounce of common sense would try to get the other half before they make a decision about anything.

18. Mar 20, 2005