Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Companies With No Accountability

  1. Oct 7, 2008 #1

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    Have any of you ever came across a company that has an utter degree of disregard for its customers? You have a problem with a business transaction and then you go to the claims department or some kind of an arbitration department and they are just unresponsive? What happens when you come across such a company ... who simply ignores your concerns? Or feign interest by giving you generalized answers that don't address your concern?

    I recently conducted an Ebay transaction with Paypal. The item was not as described so I filed a dispute within the claims department. I found out soon that this claims department is all but nonexistent. The claims specialist never contacted me one time to discuss the item. The customer representatives responded to my concerns with generalized answers that did not address my original question. The result was in favor of the seller , no explanations , case closed. I logged in to the Paypal site after this result and the documents that I had sent via faxes were in the still to be reviewed state.

    I called Paypal and actually got to converse with a supervisor at the claims department ... he gave me a generalized explanation , something along the lines of

    " Paypal has a claims department ... like it or not , this is what you are going to get "

    And then he hung up on me.

    The common theme throughout the dispute ordeal was

    " we have our way , if you have a separate opinion or concern we are not going to address it "

    They give you " answers " but this could be any type of an answer , they address your concern superficially but don't even mention or address your concern , it is like you are not even there ...

    I never had one Paypal representative actually answer my question until this moment. Anyone else here find this incredibly annoying? Has anyone had the same issue with Paypal? Any other companies that exhibited this type of behavior? Do these companies have any accountability - any way to have them to be responsible - or is the arbitration centers at each of these companies all a image charade to fool the customers?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 7, 2008 #2

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    What was your question to Paypal? It seems that your dispute would be with the seller. What did Paypal do wrong?

    Did you file a complaint against the seller with ebay? It sounds like you are complaining to the bank about an item you purchased at a store with your debit card. The bank is not responsible for the quality of the item you purchased and they can't take the money back from the seller. That is between you and the seller. Same as if you had paid the seller with a check and the check was cashed. The bank does not get the money back from the person that cashed your check because you don't like the merchandise.
     
  4. Oct 7, 2008 #3

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    Paypal has this " Buyer Protection Plan " , the item in reality was not nearly the same as advertised , I filed a dispute at their claims center. I bought this item with Paypal because of this plan of theirs. The dispute was eventually in favor of the seller. If it were in my favor , I would be able to get a refund.

    Ebay and Paypal have some degree of responsibility on the products that are displayed on their website since they are getting money off of the sales of these items. It's similar to buying something at Radio Shack , the products are originally from various companies , however if the product is a scam or a defect , a good company needs to take accountability for it.

    I really don't know who would buy from a store that would take no accountability for the products that they sell and make a profit off of. Theoretically each company may be able to reference you to a chain of links to who is responsible , even the production line may refer you to someone else and so on. And that is why most companies have some kind of accountability or customer satisfaction team ... it is when these sectors are displaying disregard for the customers that there is a need for some kind of sense into what is happening and who is able to have these companies be responsible.
     
  5. Oct 7, 2008 #4

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    If your purchase through Paypal had a "buyer protection plan", what does it specifically offer? It sounds like you are expecting a refund. What are the conditions you would have to meet in order to get a refund, and did you meet them?

    Sorry, just trying to figure out what happened.

    I found this site https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_pbp-info-outside

    Was the item you purchased listed as an eligible item?

    Also this disclaimer sounds like they don't have to do anything.

    https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside#pbp-policy
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2008
  6. Oct 7, 2008 #5
    Yup. I ordered from bikepartsusa.com

    I ordered some things all at once, and the minor things came but the tires never did. I called, and they said "Oh, okay, we'll send them". I did this twice, and nothing. I'm out $40. I talked to Paypal and the guy said "We can't do anything. You got half the package, so they'll just say the tires were there." When the UPS order tracker clearly had a weight marked on the package that was less than the tires by themselves, not including other things.

    So I'm F-ed. And really mad about it. But there is nothing I can do but build up the anger in hopes that some day I'll see Morgan Steel and just tear into his face.
     
  7. Oct 7, 2008 #6

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    Yeah , under their SNAD claim - Significantly Not As Described. I had three clear cut issues

    - I asked the seller about a feature of the item , he gave me an answer , when I got the item his statements were lies

    - It had all sorts of additional damages. External and Internal.

    As for this latter claim , the supervisor of the claims department explained that ( this was his sole " human " explanation by the way , yes he actually responded )

    as long as the original Ebay site mentions " damages " then the issue of additional damages are not relevant.

    The seller mentioned a couple of damages , there were lots more , the item was trash.
     
  8. Oct 7, 2008 #7

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    The Paypal guarantee is so vague and so full of loopholes that I doubt they pay on claims very often. I am assuming that the seller refused to let you return the item?

    If they are a one time ebay seller, then you are probably SOL. If they are a repeat seller, then can't you post what happened on their profile?
     
  9. Oct 7, 2008 #8

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    It seems that a lot of these " departments " at Ebay are just for display. Afterall , they were created after a couple of scandals surfaced , they just want to encourage people to shop on Ebay since big brother Paypal is going to make certain that you are not going to get scammed.

    As I explained earlier , Ebay has to be actually responsible for what products are on their site that they earn profit off of ... all stores represent various company brands , a good company is responsible for the stuff that they have. Walmart refunds your purchases if they are defective for example.

    Who wants to buy from a store that sells defective products even more one that does not take accountability for making profit off of them? Most stores have the trusted brands ...

    Ebay is not one of these stores. Anyone is able to sell anything on Ebay.
     
  10. Oct 7, 2008 #9

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper


    No he is not going to refund the item ... no longer responds to my email. I plan to post the event on his profile pretty soon. Are there any organizations out there that are Anti-Paypal , if so count me in.

    Scam artists are everywhere and Paypal does not give a hoot because they are actually earning their share of money off of it.
     
  11. Oct 7, 2008 #10

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    This is confusing , it informs that they are able to make the final decision for the SNAD claims , then how were they able to do so for my case? I filed this case with Ebay also and they sent it over to Paypal.
     
  12. Oct 7, 2008 #11

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    I knew people that tried to start up a company that would hold the money in an "escrow" account. They wouldn't release your payment to the seller until the buyer received the item and approved it. Needless to say their offer to ebay was refused and Paypal was selected. The company that lost was started by a former UPS exec. They no longer exist.
     
  13. Oct 7, 2008 #12

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper


    Interesting ... I wonder how many people really work at Paypal.

    Wow , just google " anti Paypal " ( with a space in between ) , it seems that cases like are common.
     
  14. Oct 7, 2008 #13
    This wasn't eBay. This was just a store that used PayPal. After I realized I got shafted, I googled the company name and got a lot of complaints similar to mine, especially with regards to tires.

    I used the "contact seller directly" option from Paypal and didn't get a reply. I escalated to a dispute and they shut it down within 10 minutes saying they can't do anything about it, even though I never received half my order.

    I called them up and the guy basically told me I was SOL and that Paypal can't do anything. Great.

    Free market wins again!
     
  15. Oct 7, 2008 #14

    wolram

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Is there no trade description act? it may be impossible to apply if the seller is on foreign soil, but if the seller is native then i would think you have the means to get your money back.
     
  16. Oct 7, 2008 #15
    Of course I do. It's called small claims court. I'd have to miss a day of school to fight for $40. If I was working, it would be a day of work I'd have to miss.

    The system is broken. If you need to file for a small claim or dispute a ticket, you have to waste a day of work to do so. If the amount of money you would earn at work surpasses that which you are disputing, then it's not worth it to go to court for you and you are forced to let the scammer off the hook or let the cop feel better about himself for slapping you with a bad ticket.
     
  17. Oct 7, 2008 #16

    GCT

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper


    You know what , I am going to post an auction on Ebay and have the buyer pay for it , after this I am going to delete my account. Free money , thanks Paypal!

    It seems that the connection between Ebay , Paypal and the banks is that of a fuzzy one while I had believed that they had some type of an official partnership.

    Paypal and Ebay seem to believe that as long as the majority of the people - majority as in 70 percent perhaps - are good natured that it is a legitimate company ... the sun is shining as long as the majority of these buyers don't get ****ed.

    So what really is the distinction between some kind of hacker or scam artist who builds a website to fool people and Paypal who have these scums do it for them? What is Paypal's distinction from that of a really sleazy store that exists to rip customers off? Right , Paypal is the parent of these companies who do their business on Paypal , wow what a great company.

    In a sense it is these type of companies that Paypal secures while not securing the buyer. How ... utterly sickening.
     
  18. Oct 7, 2008 #17
    The US Post office.

    The Maryland State Department of Motor Vehicle Services.
     
  19. Oct 7, 2008 #18

    Moonbear

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    If you can't get the issue resolved through eBay and PayPal, and if it's enough money for you to feel it's worth your time and court costs, you can still sue the seller in small claims court if they won't give you a refund for an item that was misrepresented.

    But, your situation is a perfect example of why I won't buy anything on eBay. It's worse than a garage sale, because you don't even get to look at the item before you buy. There are things I wouldn't buy at a garage sale either, like electronics, unless someone there let me plug it in and see if it actually worked before I bought.

    Ooh, Cyrus' post made me think of something else. If they mailed the item to you by regular USPS mail, and not through some other courier service, you could file a complaint with the postal service. It might not get very far either, but it would fall under the category of mail fraud. If they're a one-time seller on eBay, it might not add up to enough for any action to be taken, but if they have one of those eBay stores that sells a lot through them, you never know, there might be a big fat file about them with the Postal Inspectors.
     
  20. Oct 7, 2008 #19

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Oh, good one MB! Just the worry of being inspected for mail fraud would serve them right.
     
  21. Oct 7, 2008 #20

    russ_watters

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Ebay is not a store, it is an auction site. What you are saying is not like going after Radio Shack for an item they stock, it is going after the mall for what you bought at the Radio Shack at the mall. The mall is just a market place. It isn't responsible for what the stores in it are doing.

    Now the Paypal buyer protection program sounds a lot like what credit card companies do (and paypal is similar to a credit card company). But they have to strike a balance and dispute resolution is difficult. It is tough to know if your claim was reasonable or not based on what you've said.

    Now your general treatment by Paypal - that's a common one. Poor customer service comes from not spending enough money on good customer service. Ultimately, companies weigh the quality of service against the cost and this is what you get.

    Also - if you paid for the item on Paypal via a credit card, you may want to see if your credit card company has some dispute resolution mechanism that can help you. They often do. Unlike Paypal, which must strike a balance between buyer and seller, credit card companies are biased in your favor because they live or die based on your willingness to use their card.
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Companies With No Accountability
  1. Hotmail account (Replies: 3)

  2. The franzbear account (Replies: 10)

  3. Company Logos (Replies: 4)

  4. Company rules (Replies: 15)

Loading...