Understanding Completeness Axiom: Real Numbers & Subsets

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In summary, the conversation discusses the application of the completeness axiom to certain subsets of real numbers. The set S is given as an example, which is shown to not be complete by proving that sqrt(3) is not in the set. The use of the completeness axiom for bounded sets is also discussed, along with the use of Cauchy sequences to prove completeness. The conversation concludes with the suggestion of using a subset of S to show that it does not have a least upper bound within the set.
  • #1
Bleys
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I'm having a little touble understanding application of the completeness axiom to certain subsets of real numbers. In a problem in a book (Fundamentals of Real Analysis by Haggarty), it asks you to show that the set S={a + b*sqrt(2) : a,b are rational} is not complete. As a hint, it tells you to show that sqrt(3) is not in the set. That's fine. What I don't understand is how it follows, from this last fact, that the set is not complete.
I know the Completeness axiom applies to bounded sets, so how can it be applied here. I tried following a similar approach to proving that Q is not complete, but I'm not sure if it's correct. It went something like this:
Take a subset of S such that a + b*sqrt(2) < sqrt(3), a,b rational. Then obviously the supremum (which is sqrt(3)) is not part of S and so it's not complete. Is this valid? It seems really trivial to me...
If anyone could enlighten me, that would be great.
 
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  • #2
He means "complete" in the sense that every Cauchy sequence has a limit. So all you need to do is find a Cauchy sequence that converges to something outside S, say [tex]\sqrt{3}[/tex].
 
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  • #3
Well, completeness hasn't been defined using sequences yet in this part of the book, so I'd rather not use methods that aren't required. The only things given are the axioms for a complete ordered field and some properties of sets (Archimedean Postulate and density of Q).
 
  • #4
is it not enough to show that a subset of the set {a + b*sqrt(2) < sqrt(3) : a,b rational} does not have a least upper bound within the set?
So for example if you let a=0, the subset is {b*sqrt(2) < sqrt(3) : b rational} which is equivalent to {b < sqrt(3/2) : rational}, which does not have a rational least upper bound. Or is that not valid?
 
  • #5
That's enough, and valid.
 

1. What is the Completeness Axiom?

The Completeness Axiom, also known as the Dedekind Axiom, is a fundamental principle in mathematics that states that every nonempty set of real numbers that is bounded above has a least upper bound. This means that for any set of real numbers, there will always be a largest number that is still smaller than all the other numbers in the set.

2. How does the Completeness Axiom relate to real numbers?

The Completeness Axiom is a defining property of the real numbers. It sets the real numbers apart from other types of numbers, such as rational numbers, by guaranteeing that every set of real numbers has a unique supremum, or least upper bound.

3. What is the significance of the Completeness Axiom in mathematics?

The Completeness Axiom is a fundamental principle in mathematics that allows for the rigorous treatment of real numbers and their properties. It is essential in proving many important theorems in analysis, such as the Bolzano-Weierstrass theorem and the Intermediate Value Theorem.

4. Can the Completeness Axiom be generalized to other sets?

While the Completeness Axiom is specific to real numbers, it can be generalized to other sets that have a well-defined notion of order and completeness. For example, the Completeness Axiom can be extended to the complex numbers, which also have a notion of magnitude and direction.

5. Is the Completeness Axiom always true?

Yes, the Completeness Axiom is considered to be an axiom, meaning it is assumed to be true and does not require proof. It is a foundational principle in mathematics that is accepted as true and is used to prove other theorems and properties of real numbers and subsets.

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