Confusion on de Rham cohomology of manifolds

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of de Rham cohomology and compact cohomology for an infinite disjoint union of manifolds. Participants explore the relationships between these cohomologies, the implications of compact support, and the Kunneth formula in this context. The conversation includes technical aspects of algebraic topology and manifold theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the de Rham cohomology of an infinite disjoint union of manifolds is a direct product, while compact cohomology is a direct sum, raising questions about the reasoning behind these distinctions.
  • One participant proposes that a q-form on the manifold is determined by its restriction to each component, suggesting an isomorphism between chain complexes.
  • Another participant questions why forms with compact support are zero on all but finitely many components, linking this to the direct sum structure of compact cohomology.
  • There is a discussion about the dual space of compact cohomology and the implications of the direct sum versus direct product in this context.
  • Participants explore the nature of the pairing in Poincare duality, questioning why it involves compact cohomology and not just the standard cohomology.
  • One participant introduces a question about representing forms in the product of two manifolds and the concept of cohomology cross products.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of direct sums and products in the context of cohomology. There is no consensus on the implications of compact support or the specific formulations of the Kunneth formula, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the definitions and properties discussed depend on the nature of the indexing set and the compactness of the manifolds involved, which may affect the validity of certain claims.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and researchers in algebraic topology, differential geometry, and related fields, particularly those studying cohomology theories and their applications in manifold theory.

kakarotyjn
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Consider the infinite disjoint union M = \coprod\limits_{i = 1}^\infty {M_i },where M_i 's are all manifolds of finite type of the same dimension n.Then the de Rham cohomology is a direct product H^q (M) = \prod\limits_i {H^q (M_i )}(why?),but the compact cohomology is a direct sum H_c^q (M) = \mathop \oplus \limits_i H_c^q (M_i )(why?).

Taking the dual of the compact cohomology is a direct sum H^{q}_{c}(M)=\oplus_{i}H^{q}_{c}(M_i)(why?).

The question is indicated by red word,by the way I need to prove Kunneth Formula for compact cohomology using Poincare duality and the Kunneth formula for de Rham cohomology.But I don't know how to deal with the Dual space (H^{n-q}_{c}(m))^{*}.Any ideas?

Thank you very much!
 
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kakarotyjn said:
Consider the infinite disjoint union M = \coprod\limits_{i = 1}^\infty {M_i },where M_i 's are all manifolds of finite type of the same dimension n.Then the de Rham cohomology is a direct product H^q (M) = \prod\limits_i {H^q (M_i )}(why?),
but the compact cohomology is a direct sum H_c^q (M) = \mathop \oplus \limits_i H_c^q (M_i )(why?).


This seems natural enough no? I mean when you think about it at the level of chains... a q-form on M is entirely determined by its restriction to each component M_i, so this sets up an isomorphism between C^q(M) and the product of ther C^q(M_i). And this identification identifies Z^q(M) with the product of the Z^q(M_i) and B^q(M() with the product of the B^q(M_i). So that's that.

As for compact cohomology, the restriction homomorphism at the chain level maps Ccq(M) not unto the whole product of the Ccq(M_i)'s but onto the direct sum only, simply because if you take a q-form w on M, then it must be 0 onall but finitely many iof the M_i's since it has compact support!

kakarotyjn said:
Taking the dual of the compact cohomology is a direct sum H^{q}_{c}(M)=\oplus_{i}H^{q}_{c}(M_i)(why?).


Show quite generally that for a collection V_i of vector spaces, the dual of their direct sum is naturally isomorphic to the direct sum of their dual.

kakarotyjn said:
The question is indicated by red word,by the way I need to prove Kunneth Formula for compact cohomology using Poincare duality and the Kunneth formula for de Rham cohomology.But I don't know how to deal with the Dual space (H^{n-q}_{c}(m))^{*}.Any ideas?

Thank you very much!

So using PD and Kunneth for the Rham, you end up with a natural iso

(H_c^{n-q}(M))^*\cong \oplus_{i+j=q}(H_c^{n-i}(M))^*\otimes (H_c^{n-j}(M))^*

First use that for any two vector spaces, V^*\otimes W^* is naturally isomorphic to (V\otimes W)^*.

Then use the natural ismorphism about duals of direct sum proven above. Then you have

(H_c^{n-q}(M))^*\cong \left(\oplus_{i+j=q}H_c^{n-i}(M)\otimes H_c^{n-j}(M)\right)^*

Then use that if V,W are naturallyu isomorphic, then so are V* and W*, and finally, use the natural iso btw a v. space V and its double dual V** to obtain the natural iso

H_c^{n-q}(M)\cong \oplus_{i+j=q}H_c^{n-i}(M)\otimes H_c^{n-j}(M)

So in the end, the problem is one big exercice in finding natural isomorphisms!
 
Thank you very much quasar987!

But I'm sorry that I still can't understand why \omega with compact support is not 0 only on finitely many of M_i,then the compact cohomology is a direct sum ?Could you recommend me some books deal with direct sum and direct product.

And I'm sorry that the third formula is not H_c^q (M) = \oplus _i H_c^q (M_i ),but is (H_c^q (M))^* = \prod _i H_c^q (M_i ),the dual space is direct product.

And these days I product another question that:Could all the forms in H^* (M \times N) be represented by \omega \wedge \eta for \omega and \eta in H^*(M) and H^*(N) in respect? If it's yes,how to represent (x+y)dxdy in H(R2)by
\omega \wedge \eta for omega is in H(R1) and eta is in H(R1)?

Thank you!
 
another question:why the pairing of poincare duality is from H^*(M) and H^*_c(M)?
why not H^*(M) and H^*(M) or H^*_c(M)and H^*_c(M)?

Thank you !
 
Given a family V_i of vector spaces indexed by some set I, the direct product of the V_i is the vector space of all the "I-tuples" or "I-indexed sequences" (v_i)_{i\in I} (formally, this idea is made precise by identifying (v_i)_{i\in I} with the maps f:I\rightarrow \bigcup_iV_i such that f(i) is in V_i.)

The direct sum of the V_i is the linear subspace \bigoplus_iV_i of \prod_iV_i consisting of all the I-tuples (v_i) for which all but finitely many of the v_i are 0.
 
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kakarotyjn said:
Thank you very much quasar987!

But I'm sorry that I still can't understand why \omega with compact support is not 0 only on finitely many of M_i,then the compact cohomology is a direct sum ?

With the definition above, it should be clear. We have a map of chain complex C^q(M)\rightarrow \prod_iC^q(M_i) defined by \omega\mapsto (\omega|_{M_i})_{i\in I}. But omega has compact support, so it is zero on all but finitely many of the M_i (otherwise, we could construct a sequence in supp(omega) by taking no more than 1 point in each M_i, and so this sequence would have no convergent subsequence, which contradicts compactness). So we see that (\omega|_{M_i})_{i\in I} actually lives in the smaller space \bigoplus_iC^q(M_i)! Show that \omega\mapsto (\omega|_{M_i})_{i\in I} is an isomorphism onto \bigoplus_iC^q(M_i)(easy).

kakarotyjn said:
Could you recommend me some books deal with direct sum and direct product.

Maybe just Lee's Intro to smooth manifold (the appendix) if what I said just above does not quench your thirst.

kakarotyjn said:
And I'm sorry that the third formula is not H_c^q (M) = \oplus _i H_c^q (M_i ),but is (H_c^q (M))^* = \prod _i H_c^q (M_i ),the dual space is direct product.

Ah, you're right, the correct formula to prove is

\left(\bigoplus_iV_i\right)^*\cong \prod_iV_i^*

But this has no impact on the steps I suggested to solve your problem about kunneth for compact support. Why? Because notice that in the event that the indexing set I is finite (as is the case for the derahm cohomology of a compact manifold), then \prod_iV_i = \bigoplus_iV_i!
 
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Ah, but what I wrote in post #2 about Kunneth is pretty much nonsense notation wise. For instance, for the first formula, I meant to write

(H_c^{n-q}(M\times N))^*\cong \oplus_{i+j=q}(H_c^{n-i}(M))^*\otimes (H_c^{n-j}(N))^*

etc. I apologize.
 
kakarotyjn said:
And these days I product another question that:Could all the forms in H^* (M \times N) be represented by \omega \wedge \eta for \omega and \eta in H^*(M) and H^*(N) in respect?

Notice that it does not make sense to talk about \omega \wedge \eta if omega and eta do not live on the same manifold... But actually when you think about it a bit it does make sense, if by \omega \wedge \eta we actually mean pr_M^*\omega \wedge pr_N^*\eta. And this has a name in algebraic topology.. it is called the cohomology cross product of omega and eta and we write

\omega\times \eta := pr_M^*\omega \wedge pr_N^*\eta

This is defined at the level of chains, but it persist at the cohomology level and it is precisely this map that gives the isomorphism in the Kunneth theorem.
 
kakarotyjn said:
another question:why the pairing of poincare duality is from H^*(M) and H^*_c(M)?
why not H^*(M) and H^*(M) or H^*_c(M)and H^*_c(M)?

Thank you !

Mmmh.. Well, first notice that in the case M is compact, all the options you wrote above are the same because H*(M)=H*_c(M) in that case. In case M is not compact, we at least need one of the 2 forms omega and eta to be of compact support if their exterior product is to be of compact support. And this we need if

\int_M\omega\wedge \eta

is to be well-defined.
 
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  • #10
Thank you very much quasar987!Now I know it better!:smile:
 

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