Consequences of pressure on helix

In summary, two engineers are discussing the force required to compress a helical compression spring in different pressure environments. One engineer has a simple formula while the other has a more complex one. They are debating whether there would be any difference in the required force due to the hydrostatic forces and differences in effective area for each coil loop. However, the pressure at all points of the spring is equal and would not have a significant effect on the spring unless it is stretched to its elastic limit.
  • #1
Roger900
11
0
Two engineers are disagreeing on the following issue.

Can anyone assist in providing a 3rd opinion?

The question relates to the force required to compress a simple helical compression spring.

Assume a compression spring is resting on a work table in absolute pressure of approximately 14.7 PSI. The spring requires 50 pounds of force to compress the spring.

Next, assume the same spring was submerged in 10,000 PSI hydraulic fluid. What would be the force required to compress the spring?

One engineer has a simple math formula to solve the problem...while another engineer has a more complex math formula to solve the problem.
 
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  • #2
Why would there be any difference? The pressure at all points of the wire spring are equal such that they cancel out and don't produce any resultant load on the spring.
 
  • #3
Tell the engineers to look up the definition of a hydrostatic force.
 
  • #4
Q_Goest said:
Why would there be any difference? The pressure at all points of the wire spring are equal such that they cancel out and don't produce any resultant load on the spring.

Would a difference be resulting from the effective area differences for each individual coil loop?

If we look at a single helical coil of the spring, the outer diameter is obviously larger than the inner diameter. Hence, the outer diameter, or edge of the helical coil is physically in contact with more hydraulic fluid than the inner edge.

As the spring is being compressed, the diameters of each helical coil is increasing. Since the outer edge is under more "resistance" pressure to enlarge versus the inner edge desire to expand, would this not require more force be added to compress the spring - to overcome the resist forces from the differences in area?
 
  • #5
The only difference is, there is a compressive hydrostatic stress field in the spring. But 10,000 psi is way below the yield point of most "normal" spring materials, so the stress would have no effect unless you were planning to stretch the spring close to its elastic limit.
 

1) What is the helix structure and why is it important?

The helix structure is a common shape found in many biological molecules, such as proteins and DNA. It is characterized by a coiled shape, with each turn of the coil consisting of a repeating pattern of hydrogen bonds between the backbone atoms. This structure is important because it allows for stability and flexibility in these molecules, allowing them to carry out their specific functions.

2) How does pressure affect the helix structure?

When pressure is applied to a helix, it causes a change in the hydrogen bonding pattern. This can result in the helix becoming more compact or even unraveling completely. The extent of the effect depends on the magnitude and duration of the pressure, as well as the specific characteristics of the helix.

3) What are the consequences of pressure on helix in biological systems?

The consequences of pressure on helix can vary depending on the specific system and conditions. In some cases, it can cause changes in protein or DNA structure and function, potentially leading to disease or other physiological effects. In extreme cases, pressure can even denature proteins and disrupt essential cellular processes.

4) Are there any positive effects of pressure on helix?

In certain cases, pressure can actually have a positive effect on helix structure. For example, some studies have shown that applying pressure can stabilize certain proteins and improve their thermal and chemical stability. Additionally, pressure can be used as a tool for studying the structure and function of helix-containing molecules in a controlled environment.

5) How do scientists study the consequences of pressure on helix?

Scientists use a variety of techniques, such as high-pressure cell experiments and computer simulations, to investigate the effects of pressure on helix-containing molecules. These methods allow for controlled manipulation of pressure and measurement of changes in structure and function. Additionally, studies on naturally occurring organisms that thrive in high-pressure environments can provide valuable insights into the consequences of pressure on helix.

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