Conservation of information in quantum mechanics

  1. I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
    the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
    deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
    believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
    whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
    created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
    physical universe reconciled with this?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. On Aug 20, 2:55 pm, Mountain Math Software <mtnm...@mtnmath.com>
    wrote:
    > I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
    > the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
    > deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
    > believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
    > whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
    > created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
    > physical universe reconciled with this?


    I believe that your assumption that the physical universe can operate
    in a time reversible manner is suspect.

    al
     
  4. On Aug 21, 12:55=A0am, Mountain Math Software <mtnm...@mtnmath.com>
    wrote:
    > I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
    > the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
    > deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
    > believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
    > whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
    > created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
    > physical universe reconciled with this?


    Information is related to energy. And in QM, conservation of energy
    can be violated because of the uncertainty principle. Thats why
    virtual particles can disobey the principle of conservation of energy
    and still be describable by a physical theory.

    And it is actually not quite correct to talk of energy/information of
    the whole universe, because its infinite. No matter how much you add
    to it or subtract from it, it always remains infinite. So, the
    significance of the idea of conservation of energy or information of
    the whole universe is debatable.

    Kushal.
     
  5. Mountain Math Software <mtnmath@mtnmath.com> wrote:

    > I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
    > the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
    > deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
    > believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
    > whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
    > created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
    > physical universe reconciled with this?


    The system together with the observer have a wave function too,
    that's why there is something called 'the measurement problem'.

    Furthermore you may note that 'the wave function of the universe'
    is not a wel defined (or even a definable) concept,

    Jan
     
  6. On Aug 20, 3:55=A0pm, Mountain Math Software <mtnm...@mtnmath.com>
    wrote:
    > I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
    > the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
    > deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
    > believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
    > whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
    > created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
    > physical universe reconciled with this?


    A careful meaning to information must be actually defined. A momenta
    change as a cause to observation was always the physical meaning of
    information. A change in system as a observation then allows all
    effect as information conservation. Causality of information as
    subjective human interaction of the mind appears the common
    confusion. A mind act has zero momenta information to transfer to the
    system.

    SO always use system parameter as the definition of information. All
    parameters will be conserved as long as certain critera are met.
    Nother's thoery as a symmetry of t, where t is a variable, must cause
    the property of conservation in all allowable systems. Symmetry as
    observable parameter then becomes a kind of effect. A mathematical
    effect of functional symmetry allows only one definition to
    information.

    The functional parameter then became an effect of symmetric formal
    theory. Nother's theory will always be observed true, making it a
    principle of all information.

    A violation implies a failed functional usage. Here is a failed
    example:

    A momenta as conserved would imply a velocity conserved as long as all
    matter was a certain size. A function becomes symmetric by use of a
    common matter size. And the failure was a common size as all things
    are in reality many sizes. So the symmetric calculation appear
    definable as a parameter.

    ANd here is the menaing of parameter, an observable. In quantum
    theory a parameter was a physical degree-of-freedom. Implying all
    symmetric as a cause to effect.

    So, I have proven in Gedanken the act of information conservation, for
    the act then allows no parameter only size of parameter. A mistaken
    information definition, not.
     
  7. On Aug 20, 12:55 pm, Mountain Math Software <mtnm...@mtnmath.com>
    wrote:
    > I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
    > the conservation of information in quantum mechanics. Any
    > deterministic time reversible theory must conserve information and I
    > believe the evolution of the wave function satisfies this. However,
    > whenever an observation is made it would seem that new information is
    > created. How is the absolute conservation of information in the
    > physical universe reconciled with this?


    Hi. my connection died during my last post; I hope this isn't a
    duplicate:

    Information is formally equivalent to entropy, which can not be a
    conserved quantity; therefore, information can not be a conserved
    quantity, even if reformulated in quantum operators.
     
  8. Mountain Math Software wrote:
    > I just say Leonard Susskind's Book TV appearance and am curious about
    > the conservation of information in quantum mechanics.


    Check out the wikipedia article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox

    Susskind was probably talking about "information" in the sense of the
    above article.

    Gerard
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share a link to this question via email, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?