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Contemporary views of God invalid.

  1. May 29, 2004 #1
    My outlook, which was once influenced by the outlook some youth ministers is that God wants me to be happy. This is wrong, God does not want me or anyone else to be happy.


    Because God is all powerful, that is, according to these contemporary Christians. If God wanted humans to be happy, POOF, we would be happy, because God gets what God wants, that is, according to contemporary Christians. So It would seem to me that if God really wanted us to be happy, he would make us happy himself!

    So it seems to me that this proves that God doesnt want us to be happy.

    Now I know the argument against my theory is that God wants us to earn this happiness, well this may be valid. But if this is the case, then it is not happiness God wants us to have, it is earning happiness, through experience. It is EXPERIENCE, not happiness, that God wants us to have.

    But!, again we must return to my point that God gets what God wants, and so, if God wanted us to be experienced, then he would have made it so! Its that easy for him to do, because he is all-powerful, remember????

    So I have come to the conclusion that God wants the status-quo! He wants everything that is happening today to happen! Because if he didnt, It wouldnt happen!

    So, there are two possibilities here.

    1) Either God does not have control over us, and thus be capable of being unhappy with the status-quo


    2) God is content with everything that is happening in the world.

    So, in that light, If you are unhappy with things that are currently happening in the world, it is because God wants you to be unhappy, because he could change it at any time if he wanted to, but doesnt!

    Oy, sometimes I think God wants me to be confused :yuck:
    Last edited: May 29, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. May 29, 2004 #2
    If that was indeed the case, then people would complain about God not letting us have freewill. Oh, but then we would always be happy. We wouldn't care about our freewill, just that we were happy.
    Did it also occur to you that what makes some people happy doesn't neccesraily make other people happy? What makes me happy is studying. For other people it is the contrary choices.

    According to that philosophy, we are not individuals. We won't have opinions about what can make us happy and what can't.
  4. May 29, 2004 #3


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    Are you saying that God cannot provide different sets of circumstances for different people (that is, make them all happy in their unique way)?
  5. May 29, 2004 #4
    Hmm....Indirectly I guess. Oh, I can't believe I over looked that.

    Experience is inevitable.
  6. May 29, 2004 #5


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    One viewpoint that has been expressed in these discussion pages is that God desires to be worshiped by human beings, but He would not get satisfaction from our worship if He had designed us to be "robots." To such people, it somehow makes sense that at some point in time (I had thought during the time of Adam and Eve and the Tree of Knowledge, but another member quoted scriptures indicating it was the time of Noah) God activated the pathological abilities of bacteria and viruses so that humans--and non-humans as well!--would suffer disease and death. To such minds, when a cow gets a cancerous tumor of the eye, or a human suffers the agony of encephalitis brought on by West Nile virus, it is because God does not want humans to be robots. At least, I think that is the thought process running through the minds of Bible believers. Maybe I am still missing some key part of the chain of logic.

    From a Biblical perspective, is it wrong for us to spray a pond of water to kill mosquitoes in order to cut down on the number of incidents of West Nile infection? Does God want X number of humans to suffer at any time from this disease, or any others you want to name? If that is the case, are we not thwarting His will by spraying pesticide?
    Last edited: May 29, 2004
  7. May 30, 2004 #6
    Basically my main point was that God gets what God wants, and so, if he dislikes anything, then he would change it.

    So if people are happy/unhappy, then it is because God wants them to be that way.

    Basically im just pointing out contradictions in Christian philosophy.

    In one respect it says that God is all powerful, and gets what he wants.

    In another, it says we can displease him.

    Now to me, this is a contradiction.
  8. May 30, 2004 #7
    BoulderHead definition of "Gods Will";
    That which has just happened.

    This goes deeper than a simple once-over. :smile:
  9. Jun 5, 2004 #8
    Mattius and the rest who posted here overlooked something very important in my opinion. Let's assume that God wants us to be happy. So we are born happy, and we die happy. But can we know then that we are happy if never in our lives we didn't experience the unhappy parts of life? I don't think so.
    From my point of view, everything in life is split into something, and it's opposite. So to really IDENTIFY something, you'd have to refer to its opposite. So in a sence, beauty is compared to ugliness, good tasting to bad tasting, Good to Evil, knowledge to ignorance.

    Life depends on the harmony of the opposites. So if you don't experience unhappiness in your life, you won't even tell that you are happy, you will just exist in a certain weird state that i can't describe.
    Hope that i made a clear point.....
  10. Jun 5, 2004 #9


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    So the kitten whose pelvis is crushed by a passing car's tire needs to spend those last hours of its life suffering in order to feel good about how relatively pain-free the earlier phase of its life was?
  11. Jun 5, 2004 #10
    If you insist, yes.
  12. Jun 5, 2004 #11
    within the theme of this thread.

    perhaps, if the physical world is to be experienced, the cat wanted to experience that type of pain.

    i do know that i don't enjoy pain, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have a value within the scheme of the universe.

    olde drunk
  13. Jun 5, 2004 #12
    This is a rather bold assumption, but ok.

    Not necessarily, but ok.

    Does it even matter if we know?
    After all, your original assumption is only that God wants us to be happy. What you’ve done now is added a new twist; God wants us to be able to appreciate happiness (by allowing for unpleasant alternatives).

    Which supports a rather different assumption from your original one, namely; that God's primary goal is not that we be happy but rather, that we learn why happiness merits our appreciation.

    How about calling it; perpetual happiness? :smile:
  14. Jun 5, 2004 #13
    Then why assume the cat wants to experience that type of pain, since you obviously do not ?
  15. Jun 5, 2004 #14


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    You know something, Kareem? Maybe this isn't the case for you, but every time I think back to the times I was happiest, I didn't even realize I was happy. I think I like it better that way.
  16. Jun 5, 2004 #15


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    olde drunk, I usually enjoy your posts, but I have to disagree here.

    Bad things happen. There is no god, IMHO. I turned away from a belief in god when I was 8 because I realized that the god depicted in the bible was a shallow, hateful, jealous, vindictive person that happened to carry the values of people that lived roughly 1,500-2,000 years ago when this stuff was written. I realized the bible was all made up by men. It was all a fairy tale written to give guidelines to the people of those times.

    I'm actually sad that there is no "good god". It would be nice to believe that someone "up there" is taking care of me. There is no evidence of that though. Very bad things happen to innocent people and animals. What "god" would allow this? A perverted, twisted, and sinister god perhaps. If there is a god, why does everyone automatically assume he is good? I think there is more evidence to just the opposite. If there is a god, he is not very nice.
  17. Jun 5, 2004 #16
    Perhaps God just wants life to increase in intelligence and create order inside of chaos. If so, then we seem right on track.

    It's trying to figure out what Woman wants that drives me nuts!
    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
  18. Jun 6, 2004 #17
    Evo, first thank you.

    Now, you prove my point. If there is no god, in traditional terms, then all things that happen are the result of choice; no puppet master.

    isn't it liberating to know that you and you alone chose your present and past experiences. how powerful to know that you will be the creator of your future.

    to me, the universe is god. whatever i wish to accomplish (without being ridiculous and within our accepted physical limits) the universe will assist my efforts.

    a super-consciousness grows and expands as each of us experience new and unique events. no two cats or humans will experience being run over the same way. if ya gotta go then go out with a flourish.

    i am over simpifying for the idea within this thread. why can some of us handle having a tooth drilled without medication and others need to be sedated just to allow the dentist to touch a tooth?? some can detach or get into the pain and others feel it beyond any tolerable limit.

    so without a good or bad god we are free! we chose the time, place and manner of our birth, our parents and the overall enviornment we wanted to asist us in our journey toward today. today we make choices that add to our historical choices for a tomorrow.

    it is both liberating and scary to realize that we are responsible for our life experience. yes it would be nice to have that nice olde man up there looking after us like a gentle, loving parent. i believe we do, but in a different way. we make the decisions and the universal consciousness provides all the necessary assistance we need.

    i see it as a spiritual co-operative. you send out a message and the whole universe listens. spiritually, i and everyone else lends their support; this includes realities and consciousnesses that we are unaware of. (my grammar sux)

    we are not alone, but still masters of our fate.

    olde drunk
  19. Jun 6, 2004 #18
    give it up!! you ain't never gonna figger it out!!

    accept them as they are. we're wired differently and there is the yin-yang thingy, two sides of the same coin. keep try'n and you'll have more chaos!

    olde drunk
  20. Jun 6, 2004 #19


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    Some days back in another thread I mentioned a news story about the three occupants of a vehicle killed when a girder on an overpass in Denver fell on their vehicle. Did the occupants in any way choose that as their future? I suppose you could say that the two adults chose to go out driving, and chose to take some particular route with some particular timing. But they surely did not choose to leave a girder lying loose on the side of an overpass span. And the child in the back seat arguably did not even make a choice to go along for the ride; likely it was, for all intents and purposes, forced to go along by one or both of the adults in the vehicle.
  21. Jun 6, 2004 #20


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    I disagree. When I was a small child, I knew my parent's loved me and I was happy. At that point in my life I had never experienced the pain of not being loved or being unhappy. According to your theory I could not have known these things.
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