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Medical Could you make two brains

  1. Sep 11, 2005 #1
    Could you make two brains- for example, a mouse's- compatible with each other, via genetic engineering or something?

    Thanks
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 11, 2005 #2

    hypnagogue

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    What do you mean by 'compatible with eachother'?
     
  4. Sep 11, 2005 #3
    I was asking that question in regards to what somebody said, which was this:

    It seems obvious to me that no two minds would be compatible, and that this kind of forced connection would just result in a clash in which both minds would be degraded, if not destroyed. You are assuming that information automatically accumulates whereas it actually often conflicts.

    You've also ignored the emotional component, which is brain-based, in the diencephalon. Imagine the havoc it would create in your mind to suddenly have a second, but equally powerful, emotional reaction to everything occuring on top of your native one. Trying to sort them out would paralyse you, or drive you insane.

    they said that in regards to me asking about brain physically connecting up to another brain via genetic engineering

    Somebody said that with genetic engineering (The type I was talking about) you could repattern the two tissues so that they integrate
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2005
  5. Sep 12, 2005 #4

    LURCH

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    I don't think two brains could be "made" physically compatible. If this could be done, the problem of tissue rejection in transplant recipients would be solved. So, just like transplant patients, you would probably have to find two brains that are compatible, rather than trying to make them so. This could perhaps be accomplished through cloning (sellect two mice that are monozygotic twins). This, of course, would do nothing to reduce the other problems involved.
     
  6. Sep 12, 2005 #5

    hypnagogue

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    NeedBioInfo, you're still being terribly vague. Could you describe exactly what you mean by making two brains compatible with eachother? Compatible in what way, exactly?
     
  7. Sep 12, 2005 #6
    Identical, I guess. I guess I'm asking if it would theoretically/hypothetically be possible to make two brains/minds identical to each other, (physically and/or pyschologically) and if so, how.

    Thanks
     
  8. Sep 12, 2005 #7

    hypnagogue

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    I'm not sure what making a duplicate of a brain has to do with making two brains compatible with eachother. Whatever it might mean to make two brains compatible with eachother, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with creating identical copies. Are you sure that's what you meant to say?
     
  9. Sep 12, 2005 #8
    well basically.....I wanted to know about making two MINDS (Not necessarily brains) identical to each other

    thanks
     
  10. Sep 13, 2005 #9

    somasimple

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    Hi,

    Minds are expressions of brain functioning. You cannot separate minds from the physical reality of cells => neurons/glia cells
     
  11. Sep 13, 2005 #10
    Could you make the physical reality of cells- neurons/glia cells- identical to each other in two or more different brains then?

    Thanks
     
  12. Sep 13, 2005 #11

    somasimple

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    similar perhaps in 3/5 decades, identical, never!
     
  13. Sep 13, 2005 #12
    About the above comment:

    How similiar, though?

    Thanks
     
  14. Sep 13, 2005 #13

    hypnagogue

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    This could topic could fill a whole other thread, but the above isn't necessarily true. To the extent that minds are characterized by abstract computational processes, we could build certain kinds of non-biological computers that could plausibly be said to have minds. For instance, in theory we could build a silicon-based robot with a complex CPU taking in lots of information from the environment, processing that information with high-level cognitive functions analogous to memory, attention, decision making, and so on, and then behaving coherently and intelligently in the world on the basis of that data processing. That would inarguably constitute a mind qua complex, computational, cognitive processing unit without needing biological cells. Of course, if by "mind" we mean to include consciousness, the picture gets muddier and it's no longer clear (at least, given what we know now) whether our robot has a mind qua conscious entity.
     
  15. Sep 13, 2005 #14

    Moonbear

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    I've learned two important things in science :wink:. First, never say never. Second, don't try to estimate a time frame for something you just don't know how to do. But, that said...

    NeedBioInfo, I think the main point being made here is that what you are asking about is so far beyond our current knowledge of neuroscience as to be unanswerable, unless you are asking if we can do it right now, in which case, the answer is no. I would, however, lean toward the view that there would be so many variables that would need to be controlled in trying to create two identical brains/minds (whether or not you consider them one and the same) as to make it highly unlikely it would ever be accomplished, and even more likely that anyone would be able to provide sufficient justification for experiments to try it.
     
  16. Sep 13, 2005 #15

    somasimple

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    Hi,
    The natural complexity of brain (number of cells) and the natural number of changing connections every second brought this affirmation! Twins are similar but not identical.

    Exact brain cloning is thus impossible.
     
  17. Sep 14, 2005 #16

    somasimple

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    This statement is valid for human beings (and certainly all conscious living things?) Mind is the result of cells which are functionning so mind exists only if cells exist.

    Thinking machine are possible for sure.
     
  18. Sep 14, 2005 #17

    Moonbear

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    That's a large leap in logic there. Just because it doesn't naturally occur in twins doesn't mean it's impossible, unless you're talking about the current state of technology. It is impossible NOW, but will it ever become possible? I don't know. I wouldn't bet the house on it, but I wouldn't be a complete naysayer either. There's simply no way to know where technology could lead in the future. Yes, there are a HUGE numbers of variables that would need to be controlled for, but many things have been said to be impossible that became possible.
     
  19. Sep 14, 2005 #18

    somasimple

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    Hi,

    I shall stay at my position because:
    1/ the number of cells involved.
    2/ the number of connection that exist between these cells.
    3/ education.

    You'll get a divergent solution.
     
  20. Sep 15, 2005 #19

    hypnagogue

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    :uhh:

    If you were alive not too long ago, you might have argued that man will never fly. Certainly no one is saying that making a close replica of a brain would be easy, or even that it's likely to happen. But if you were more educated on this subject of forecasting what will be possible tomorrow based on what we know today, you wouldn't be so confident. Given the exponential growth of technology and knowledge, it's probably true that civilization a mere 100 years from will have advanced so much as to be largely unrecognizable to us as we stand today. Give humanity a few million or even billion years to continue at that pace, and the smart move is not to put all your chips against virtually anything being possible.
     
  21. Sep 15, 2005 #20

    somasimple

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    Well it is just a mathematic/probability/physics explanation

    A brain consists appproximately of 50,000,000,000 cells
    Each cell has 1,000 to 30,000 connections and some of these ones are changing every second. (# combinations! :rolleyes: )
    Every signal may change because a neuron is able to add/subbstract ions channels changing the speed/intensity of signal.

    If a single cell over 50,000,000,000 changes one connection thus the system diverges.

    If only a little breeze/touch/event is perceived differently by two identical brains that is the end of your exact/identical brains.

    they will diverge at the first second in my view!

    But Man do not fly (by himself) sorry! :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2005
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