Creation Museum

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cepheid

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"Creation" Museum...

I couldn't believe this story when I saw it...

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070528/creation_museum/20070528?hub=TopStories [Broken]
 
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yea the guy who owns (or directs or something) the museum was on CFRB today (talk radio station from Toronto) on the John Moore show (who was not at all impressed), but I'm glad he didn't start arguing with the guy and actually let him talk because it was a pretty nice insight into the "logic" behind these things.
 

Gokul43201

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The hardly unexpected next step after Kent Hovind's enormous success with Dinosaur Adventure Land.
 

Danger

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This has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of...
 

SpaceTiger

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That anyone is surprised by any of the surprises that come from the creationists anymore is a surprise to me.
 

Danger

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I'm not surprised, just disgusted. Just think of how many abortion clinics and archeological expeditions could have been funded with that money...
 

cepheid

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That anyone is surprised by any of the surprises that come from the creationists anymore is a surprise to me.
I see what you mean (and appreciate how you put it). To be honest, I haven't looked too deeply into what ideas creationists have been coming up with. It's always somewhat painful and irksome to read. I guess that's why I find this so difficult to fathom...due to a degree of naivete about just how deep-seated/widespread some of these ideas are.
 
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I see what you mean (and appreciate how you put it). To be honest, I haven't looked too deeply into what ideas creationists have been coming up with. It's always somewhat painful and irksome to read. I guess that's why I find this so difficult to fathom...due to a degree of naivete about just how deep-seated/widespread some of these ideas are.
It's not quite as deep-seated as you'd think. There are many of us evangelicals who know that creation "science" is garbage (at best). Strangely, many of the professing creationists I talk to are aware, at some level, that this pseudoscience just doesn't hold up when put to the flame. My guess is that this movement is led by a small group of people who happen to hold sway over many Americans. They've probably realized that they're plenty of money to be made from creationism through seminars, literature, and museums. I think that if you have a reasoned discussion with most of these guys, without trying to present science as opposed to faith, they'll usually realize how dubious creationism is.

Should creationism be stopped? Absolutely. But I'd recommend a softer approach. Creationists seem to love having arguments, so if you take the adversarial road, you aren't going to win. Fortunately, creationists tend to recycle the same set of ten or so arguments (gaps in the fossil record, 300,000 year old mollusks, dust on the moon, etc.), so it's not too hard to explain their folly in an expedient manner.
 
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it would be interesting to see this become the next jurassic park

to bad there is no genetic engineering involved
 

ShawnD

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the website said:
Bible as a literal story..........dinosaurs
Doesn't this contradict itself? Either that or it implies dinosaurs and humans were alive at the same time. :biggrin:
 
Either that or it implies dinosaurs and humans were alive at the same time. :biggrin:
that's exactly what it implies. The guy on the radio said something along the lines of "and this is still true today, komodo dragons are dinosaurs." ... ok, komodo dragons are in fact very large reptiles. But I don't think it takes an expert eye to spot the slight differences between a komodo dragon and a T-rex :uhh:.

EDIT: I would actually have no problem with a bible museum if it presented the bible as a story, it could be very interesting and educational. It's one of the most important books ever written, we can also learn a lot about the way society functioned and the way we understood the universe back in those days— told, first hand, by those very people (The only reason I wouldn't go is because I don't think I could stand being in a place packed-full of religious nuts snootily ooohing and aaahing. And I get sick to the stomach when I see parents brain-washing their little kids with that crap).

But it's a great book, and it's one of the most ridiculously violent, racist, sexist, action-packed sagas ever written: thousands of years of generation after generation killing, raping, plaguing, enslaving, and torturing each other. Monstrous wars, the earth opening up an swallowing sinners into a fiery death! It's like "Terminator" minus the plot consistency!
 
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ShawnD

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that's exactly what it implies. The guy on the radio said something along the lines of "and this is still true today, komodo dragons are dinosaurs." ... ok, komodo dragons are in fact very large reptiles. But I don't think it takes an expert eye to spot the slight differences between a komodo dragon and a T-rex :uhh:.
Did creationists always believe this? I thought it was generally accepted that dinosaurs existed long before humans, even for those who believed in creation.
 
It really depends who you ask, they can't even agree between them. I've heard some of the more moderate ones say that the bible is a metaphor for God's work written for people to understand back in those days (which still would not make sense, since the order in which God created things during those 7 days isn't even the right order). Then there are others who say the bible is all true, but some parts are metaphors (mysteriously, all the parts that have been proven wrong are metaphors, while the others aren't)...

Then there are those who believe that God gave the earth the appearance of being billions of years old (that he created the earth already filled with fossils and rocks that are billions of years old)... because, you know, God's tricky like that; he likes to keep you guessing, even if it sends you straight to hell to guess wrong.

and on and on and on... in short, don't look for a rational or consistent argument.
 

Ivan Seeking

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These people need to be silenced, forcefully if necessary.
A call for the truth police! :uhh: I still tend to favor freedom of faith and thought.

Just wait until someone starts mixing the Many Worlds Theory with Bible doctrine. "In the beginning, in a very large number of worlds, there was light, in the rest there was not..."
 
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I favor reason and rationality way before I favor freedom of faith and thought. These people say mainstream science is a fairy tale and substitute their own ad-hoc BS.

I say beat them with sticks like they do in Iran until they learn to shut up.

Hash yes, but their ignorance is a deadly plague and it needs to be put to an end.

These people need to be a laughing stock in the mainstream media 24-7. The news should make a joke out of these people every night.

They say things like "This country was founded with Judeo-Christian beliefs".............well, no. Most presidents were not Jesus freaks. Learn your own history and stop making up more BS like they make up their own science.

Full of it....there all full of it. The news should call them "Domestic Fundamentalists"
 
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Ivan Seeking

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I favor reason and rationality way before I favor freedom of faith and thought. These people say mainstream science is a fairy tale and substitute their own ad-hoc BS.
Who gets to say what is truth? What is your definitive reference to look-up the right answers?
 
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I think well established science counts as truth. Im all for a well educated public. These idiots get wayyyyyy too much leeway.

The government cant tell them what to say or think. But as a society, we can shun them and outcast them, which I would be all for.
 
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Ivan Seeking

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I think well established science counts as truth.
Throughout history, what percentage of scientific theories have required revision or were flat-out wrong?

The government cant tell them what to say or think. But as a society, we can shun them and outcast them, which I would be all for.
They already are, as are you by them. But I don't think we should have elected one as President.
 

SpaceTiger

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Throughout history, what percentage of scientific theories have required revision or were flat-out wrong?
Not to come off as supporting cyrus' pogrom, but I expected a much better argument here. Surely you're not going off on the "Newton was wrong, so science is just faith" rant? I thought that was reserved for cranks.
 
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Ivan Seeking

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Not at all. But there is no way to rule out faith arguments. And people have a right to follow their own philosophy.

But I do appreciate the personal insults formed as a question.
 

SpaceTiger

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Not at all. But there is no way to rule out faith arguments. And people have a right to follow their own philosophy.
Sure, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with the practice of science, seeing that it's not based on faith. I don't think we should be aggressively silencing religious people, but I certainly don't think that all ideas are created equal. I find that sort of rational nihilism disturbing from a mentor on a scientific forum.


But I do appreciate the personal insults formed as a question.
"Surely you're not going off on the "Newton was wrong, so science is just faith" rant?"

I apologize if you interpret that as an insult, but I don't know why you would.
 
I favor reason and rationality way before I favor freedom of faith and thought. These people say mainstream science is a fairy tale and substitute their own ad-hoc BS.

I say beat them with sticks like they do in Iran until they learn to shut up.

Hash yes, but their ignorance is a deadly plague and it needs to be put to an end.

These people need to be a laughing stock in the mainstream media 24-7. The news should make a joke out of these people every night.

They say things like "This country was founded with Judeo-Christian beliefs".............well, no. Most presidents were not Jesus freaks. Learn your own history and stop making up more BS like they make up their own science.

Full of it....there all full of it. The news should call them "Domestic Fundamentalists"
I think your view could lead to the point where anyone who questions mainstream science would be publicly humiliated. Let's not forget that much of what today is mainstream science, would have sounded ridiculous and magical some time ago.

I do think, however, that the news-media and politicians should act responsibly and drop their politically-correct stance when it comes to religion. Many of these views would be ridiculed (or at least ignored) by the media were it not for their religious background. The news-media's job is not to play it safe and try not to offend anyone, which is sadly what they're doing lately.

I also think that religious schools and religious programs aimed at children should be banned. An adult has the right to believe in whatever crazy theory he wants to, but filling young childrens' minds with this horrid crap is irresponsible and abusive. Watch a movie like Jesus Camp, and I hope you'll agree (I personally know from spending some childhood years in Israel where the old testament is read in class).

Also, like I joked about before, the bible is incredibly violent and many of its passages have terrible messages (especially regarding women, those who do not share your faith, homosexuals, and just human—and animal—rights in general)... this is not stuff that a young kid can process without proper guidance.
Most parents wouldn't let a 6 year old kid watch "Romper-Stomper", yet they will happily send them to a church once a week to be told about a man being tortured, his entire family killed, and his life ruined for the sake of some twisted bet (book of Job); or the first-born child of every non-beleiving family being murdered (this is, of course, celebrated as a joyous occasion— pesach ("passover" I think?). The murdered weren't of one's faith, so their lives are worthless, of course) ... etc. etc. etc.
 
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The creation story in the Bible was not meant to be taken literally. And it certainly was not meant to be twisted to fit humans living with dinosaurs.

It was intended to show something that other creation myths did not: that God created order from chaos. Other contemporary creation storys taught the opposite, that the universe was in order before creation and then something happening to disturb that order. Such as the Persian teaching that the world was covered by a stone shield and a rock breaking that shield and setting the stars and planets in chaotic motion.

The Bible story teaches stewardship, that all of creation is good (...and God said "It is good"...) and should be cared for.

I agree with the man at the park who said that money should have been used for something else.
 

vanesch

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It was intended to show something that other creation myths did not: that God created order from chaos. Other contemporary creation storys taught the opposite, that the universe was in order before creation and then something happening to disturb that order.
I would rather say that order from chaos is the "standard" creation myth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_belief

Examples:
Rig Vedas (hinduism)
Greek mythology
Egyptian mythology

all proceed from a state of initial chaos from which some form of order arose...
 

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