- #71
Surrealist
- 48
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cyrusabdollahi said:But those books are going into public schools.
That comment has nothing to do with my arguments concerning the specific case being discussed.
cyrusabdollahi said:But those books are going into public schools.
cyrusabdollahi said:Yes, it does. Because those private organizations are spilling into public institutions. Its finding its way into the hands of children in public schools.
Surrealist said:We are arguing about a private organization and their right to make their own museum. Don't steer the discussion onto a different topic.
Also, don't edit your post (by adding additional content) after I have already quoted it. It is in poor taste and should be regarded as an act of deception.
if it makes you feel any better: I'm CanadianIt scares the **** out of me that people like you--people who want to take away individual freedoms--are flourishing in this country.
Surrealist said:Also, don't edit your post (by adding additional content) after I have already quoted it. It is in poor taste and should be regarded as an act of deception.
Can you provide an example?moe darklight said:I didn't know that. I'll check it out. I don't know much about the new testament, so I won't comment on it. In the old testament God seems pretty insistent on constantly making a point of his word being perfect.
cepheid said:I couldn't believe this story when I saw it...
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070528/creation_museum/20070528?hub=TopStories
This kind of commentary is inappropriate IMHO.cyrusabdollahi said:You've got to be f'in kidding me. These people need to be silenced, forcefully if necessary.
Also I find this statement highly offensive.cyrusabdollahi said:Religious people are spreading their filth and polluting this great country.
When we are young we have far less life experience than when we get older. At the same time young people tend to think they know it allcyrusabdollahi said:A meaningless life is living by a stupid book written by men that's full of myths and fairytales and closing your mind.
cyrusabdollahi said:Free speech is not an absolute, for exmaple:
-Defamation/Slander/Libel
-Obscenity
-Lying in court
-Talking out of turn during a trial, or talk that causes contempt of court
-Lies that cause a crowd to panic or causes Clear and present danger or Imminent lawless action, such as Shouting fire in a crowded theater
...For example, in Mark 12:1-9, Jesus tells a parable about a man who planted a vineyard, put a fence around it, dug a pit for a wine press, built a watchtower, and then rented it to tenants before leaving for another country. When the harvest came, he sent a slave to collect the rent, but the tenants seized and beat him instead of giving him the owner's share of the harvest. Other slaves were sent, and they, too, were beaten or killed. Finally the owner sent his own son thinking that the tenants would honor him and give him his share of the rent. Instead they seized him, killed him, and threw his body out of the vineyard. If a reader of this story were simply to read the surface level of the text, the entire point would be missed because this is a parable that takes the form of an allegory. In other words, the characters in the story refer to other figures: God, prophets, Christ, etc. A meaningful, dare we say a correct reading of this text, requires more than a literal adherence to the surface level of the words. In that sense of "literal," a surface reading of the text would be anything but a sound reading of the text. An insightful reading would require other judgments about the text to be made, for example, the literary genre of the text, in this case an allegory...
MeJennifer said:This kind of commentary is inappropriate IMHO...Also I find this statement highly offensive.
When we are young we have far less life experience than when we get older. At the same time young people tend to think they know it all
Sometimes these books provide information that can help avoid problems later in life, we may not understand them when we are young, but when we get older we are more prone to understand them.
I do not disagree with the notion that most stories in religious writings are fictional and mythological but that does not mean they are useless and are as you call it closing the mind. I do recommend others to read religious works, not only do I consider it part of general education but also these writings contain wisdom about human nature.
cyrusabdollahi said:You've got to be f'in kidding me. These people need to be silenced, forcefully if necessary.
cyrusabdollahi said:Religious people are spreading their filth and polluting this great country.
These statements are offensive. I would be as much offended if we´d replace "Religious people" or "These people" with infidels, homosexuals, blacks, Arabs, Jews or any other group that does not violate the laws.cyrusabdollahi said:These people are dangeous to society.
Moridin said:A creation museum should be dealt in the same manner as if they trying to build museums to show that the holocaust never happened.
Moridin said:It is not a threat, it is just a thought-provoking analogy for equalizing religious and racial prejudice.
You need to let go of this notion that they are only 'peacefully exercising their religious freedom' as if their behavior deserves appeasement. People who are against the description of the Holocaust could say that they are exercising their religious freedom, but I think that we can all agree that such a museum would be enormously damaging to our modern society and humanity as a whole.
We must stop ignoring the neochristian ID/AiG movements. This museum is just another pathetic attempt to mask religious prejudice as intellectual freedom.
Moridin said:Some parts of Islamic and Christian dogmatic movements that attest that the Holocaust never happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=The+holocaust+never+happened&btnG=Google+Search (notice how the two first hits are from Christian websites)
They are a small organisation, just as ID or AiG in that they do not represent the majority of the people within their religion.
It is a valid analogy. I don't want a museum on creation for the same reason as you do not want a museum where they present 'evidence' that the Holocaust never happened. Both would be trying to mask religious prejudice as intellectual freedom.
Moridin said:It is so much more than simply offending the scientific community, if that is even true. It is an assault on reason, offending to anyone with a shred of intelligence, just as denying the Holocaust is. It is an assault on reality, trying to indoctrinate people in what is neither real nor factual. A creation museum is ever so dangerous as a anti-holocaust one, because both are a treat to reason, both a treat to humanity.
That's a perfectly valid opinion. There are also people who are close minded because they believe only in logic and reason, and refuse to see that faith can have be part of society as well. If it wasn't then it's a miracle mankind has survived as long as it has.cyrusabdollahi said:Sorry if its offensive, but I find religion to be highly offensive. All I hear from my one friend is how "Jesus died for me" and that I need to convert for Jeusus. I hate people ringing my doorbell asking for donations to their church. I hate the whole damm concept of religion for weak minded people to follow in the masses. ARG I HATE RELIGION PERIOD! I am not kidding when I say its a plague and its infesting the minds of everyone around the world. I hate people (like my friend, and I tell him this all the time) that are close minded because they believe in 'faith' and won't hear logic and reason first. These people are dangeous to society.
Actually, it should be restricted to the religion/philosophy section. Unlesss you also require that (some) Aristotle and Plato also be placed in fiction.Yes, but many books provide the same information on how to live life without the need of GOD. The bible should be restricted to the fiction section of the library.
I have news for you. Many people break free of this, and either turn atheist or agnostic. Go talk to a member of the Universalist Unitarian Church. A great deal of them are (jokingly) self-referred as recovering Catholics, Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, etc.When people are born into religion its like being fed heroin since birth. These people will never break the habbit no matter what, and that scares the hell out of me. There are very few people I have ever met that were religious and turned athiest. The majority become more and more religious as they get older.
Why does this disturb you? Who are they harming in performing these specific actions?The sight of people standing around holding hands and crying, shaking, and praising something that does not exist is very distrubing to me.
Moridin said:This is not about whether people are allowed to think for themselves. It is about what happens when they are trying to indoctrinate others into lies, injecting imaginary conflicts between science and religion in their pathetic attempts to destroy science and reason.
You still need to separate political and religious subjective relativism from scientific objectivity.