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Critics on my poem.

  1. Aug 4, 2005 #1

    JasonRox

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    Critics on my poem. :D

    You wonder...

    Enjoy the moonlight that passes by most nights,
    This miracle happens before dreams begin,
    During the night after everyone dimmed the lights,
    It makes you wonder about beautiful things.

    It's less of a mystery when you find someone perfect for you,
    Everyday is like an incredible dream that you can never have imagined,
    A dream where the full moon is bright over your soft closed eyes,
    It makes you wonder about beautiful things.

    The feelings you experience with this person are real and ecstatic,
    After sharing the beauty of the moonlight together,
    There is never a day that goes by where you forget,
    It makes you wonder about beautiful things.

    The moonlight passes by most nights,
    The miracle of living a night beyond what a dream can offer,
    May only happen once in a lifetime,
    It makes you wonder about beautiful things.

    You can bear one moonless night; You can not bear one dreamless night,
    Make the best of the nights that are followed by the one you admire,
    Enjoy the moonlight together by looking at the moon shortly before midnight,
    This will make you wonder about beautiful things.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 4, 2005 #2

    wolram

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    I know nothing about poetry, but i like this Jason
    :biggrin:
     
  4. Aug 4, 2005 #3

    JasonRox

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    Thanks, I appreciate it. :smile:
     
  5. Aug 4, 2005 #4
    Its wonderful to see the the more soulful side of you. Very well written, and also very true.
     
  6. Aug 4, 2005 #5

    honestrosewater

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    Well, since you've decided to be brave, I'll be honest - it's just my opinion, anyway.
    I think it takes too long to say too little. I really don't know what your message is - something about the moon and maybe finding love being nice. Either cut it down significantly or make what you have more efficient and focused. How many times do you say 'night', 'day', 'dream', 'beauty' when there are other, better ways to convey similar meanings? Where are your senses? Sounds, smells, sights, tastes, touches, don't you experience these things? I'd rather have one full moment than some general, diluted, sums-up-everything line.

    The 'moral of the story' thing doesn't go over well. Expressing what you have felt and learned works much better than trying to give others advice.
    Why is it broken into sections? I can't discern any theme or purpose to them. Are you building towards something, exploring different aspects of something? What purpose does each quatrain serve in the structure of the poem? You could vary 'It makes you wonder about beautiful things.' to match this purpose; say if a stanza focuses on a particular sense, you could use that sense instead of 'wonder'.

    If you think I'm being harsh, you can get some revenge. :smile: Here's something I wrote a long time ago, which I am reluctant to take credit for now. I would rip this to shreds - much worse than what I did to yours - because I've learned so much in the meantime, partially from the harsh criticism from others. So that's why I'm being the harsh kind of honest. Anywho, it's a fun, exercise kind of poem (I was reading Poe at the time if it shows at all), trying out some tools and such. I chose it because it's short and shows (at least somewhat) the things I mentioned above: exploring and having fun with words, throwing in senses, building some structure with the stanzas, varying patterns for effects, etc. I'll resist the urge to change it - this is the real, unedited version. Feel free to give it a good thrashing. :)

    The Drip Drop

    I was abed and fast a-sleeping
    When came quietly a-creeping
    A drip dropping.
    This little drip did dropping wake me
    And, steadily beating, soon did make me
    Start flip flopping.

    My head beneath my pillow buried
    Still somehow the drip drop carried
    From the ceiling,
    'Round the walls, 'cross the floor
    The drip drop echoed echoed more
    Echoes reeling! Echoes reeling,

    Trapped in mine ears the sound resounding
    Drip drop dropped my heart to pounding
    Pounding louder!
    Why had this drip drop come to taunt me!?
    Who sent you, drip drop, here to haunt me?!
    Pounding prouder!

    Dripped it dropped it dripped a drop!
    Pled I, 'Stop your Drip Drop! STOP!!'
    Still more clamor!
    Thrashing, flailing all about
    My mind ablaze began to shout
    'Just crack your skull and get it out!'
    Where's the hammer?!

    When, all at once, the last drip dropped,
    And, with a sigh, the drip drop stopped.
    My spirits soared
    And then
    It poured
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2005
  7. Aug 4, 2005 #6

    JasonRox

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    honestrosewater, I like your critique.

    No revenge necessary at all. You gave me advice along with it, so that's great.

    I should continue to work on it.
     
  8. Aug 4, 2005 #7

    JamesU

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    yeah, some of the stuff should be cut. for example:

    cut out 'is like' and replace it with a comma

    all the 'its' 'likes',that sort of thing. Otherwise, it's a very good poem. :wink:
     
  9. Aug 4, 2005 #8
    Is it just me or does the style of the poem seem a little constrained by the structure? There seems to be a great amount of effort to preserve the end rhyme scheme (night, midnight, light, etc) and it loses the quality that shows up in "great" poetry. Try to make the style match the poem, have it enhance it and let the words flow, instead of constraining it to a certain rhyme pattern. Its a common mistake for most beginning writers, and is one of the reasons I don't attempt formatted poems like Sonnets, because they are extremely difficult to perfect (but come out exceptionally well when done properly). If one conforms themselves to the rhyming pattern, it usually doesn't turn out too well unless experience is there..

    One option is to try to make a freestyle poem, without a central rhyme scheme, that is usually how I approach things. That way, you can practice on achieving a variety of effects: emotional, philosophical (try not to question everything, but only that which pertains to the poem at hand), etc. If you must rhyme, make sure that the rhyme is the least important part. The message and means of conveyal of that message should always take dominance.

    Pay particular attention to connotation and tone, it makes the difference of sounding standoffish and aloof to being attached to whatever you are describing, it all depends on what you want to achieve.

    Also, some poems have certain senses attached to them. Honestrosewater made use of predominantly audible sensations in her poem, and the interesting juxtaposition of the drops and the flips and the flops and the drips and the plops makes things rather interesting, and also adding a lighthearted tone to it :biggrin:.

    Adding to what honestrosewater said earlier, there are better ways of conveying ideas. Metaphorical statements work well in such situations (ink sky, lily ocean, etc) but there is another thing you may want to consider: Use connotations and enunciation of the words to add to the effect. Things that are harder to say can slow the flow of the poem down, and also add to the meaning (say you were to talk about boulders, it would be someting along the lines of "lumbering crashing the iridescent jagged spheres roll").

    Likewise, form also works on a visual scale. But remember that poetry is meant to be said aloud, and in some cases, sound extremely cool when said aloud. I have a poem in my journal section entitled "Scribble" that is not only mathematically interesting to read, but also fun to say :biggrin:. Just for kicks, I'll resurrect it and paste an example of my first stanza.

    Scribble.
    Scribble scribble scribble
    Take the x
    dx
    integrate, simplify.
    Revolve, rotate, evolve.
    More complex. yes.
    phi delta y
    oh why?

    Notice the different sounds presented through the words, the x and y sound in particular (occuring in complex, simplify, yes), the alternating consonant "v" sound in line 6 with the "t" in the middle, the usage of "why", etc. The tone can best be described as "utterly confusing" and the choice of words match it. While not achieving an emotional effect, its similar to what students usually have when they are plowing through their homework load :rolleyes:.

    I'm just an amateur, like the rest of the poets here on PF, but I hope that this advice helps :smile:.
     
  10. Aug 4, 2005 #9
    Actually, similies have their uses in poetry. His usage of "is like" is perfectly justified. The word selection and conveyal of ideas should be the main goal.

    Grammar in poetry (at least as far as sentence structure goes) does not follow the exacting grammar of say a technical paper in English.

    Poetry is not supposed to sound like a thesis paper... though it would be interesting to see what would happen then. *has ideas*
     
  11. Aug 4, 2005 #10
    I feel it's a very heartfelt writing, JasonRox.

    In addition to what has been suggested, descriptions of what you are saying can be very effective in poetry. For instance the line "During the night after everyone dimmed the lights," could be described by colors and sounds. Like perhaps, "The orange of the evening faded into peaceful cool blue night."

    Enjoy the moonlight that passes by most nights,
    This miracle happens before dreams begin,
    The orange of the evening faded into peaceful cool blue night,
    It makes you wonder about beautiful things.

    I'm not saying it's better, just a different way to say it.
     
  12. Aug 4, 2005 #11
    Jason, yours was very nice, but by the end the words 'night' and 'light' were getting a bit repetitive.

    Rose, I'm not sure if yours was meant to sound like a parody, but seeing as you were mean about Jason's, I don't mind saying that it did.

    But both of you suck compared to me. This is mine, and it is entitled:

    THE ALBERT EINSTEIN JR'S CHRISTIAN SCHOOL FOR COSMOLOGICAL PRODIGIES' ANNUAL RELANATIVITY PLAY

    The pregnant Mary and her honky
    Rode to Bethlehem on a donkey
    Or, quite possibly taking another view
    The world revolved beneath their mule
    Until Bethlehem came to them
    Depends which way you look at it
    Because relanativistically speaking
    Both are equally true

    They knocked upon the door of an inn
    But the jobsworth inside wouldn't let them in
    He said: "there isn't enough room, we're full
    Unless you travel at a substantial
    Fraction of the speed of light
    And if you did you just might
    Squeeze in due to length contraction
    But it's not an advisable course of action
    Cos we'll probably have a vacancy by then anyway"

    So Joe and Mary hid in the stable
    She gave birth to twins under the table
    But one was 6 days older than the other
    So the Catholic church only mentions the brother
    Which also explains why Christmas is 6 days BC
    It all happened rather paradoxically

    Three wise men then came to the shed
    Shown the way by the north star overhead
    Which is pretty foresighted of the north star
    Cos it must have shone that light far
    Longer than a million years ago
    How did it guess? How did it know
    That millions of years later it's sparkling glow
    Would show three blokes exactly where to go?
    (Are we now suggesting solar consciousness?) No!

    They told Joe the boy was the son of a deity
    Enraged by their accusations of infidelity
    towards his wife, he beat the cr@p out of them
    Hmmm... not so wise after all then
    Then the boy grew up and walked on water
    But to avoid confusion I really oughta
    Point out it was frozen at the time
    Reckless, yes, but miraculous? You're too easily impressed

    So Jesus was arrested for breaking the laws of physics
    And was nailed to a cross by his wrists
    So what we're saying here is that, ironically,
    The poor sod was killed by his own gravity
    Something of a relanativistic own-goal
    He was buried deep in a black hole
    But later re-emerged, possibly as Hawking radiation
    Thus maintaining conservation of information
     
  13. Aug 4, 2005 #12

    JasonRox

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    REVISED.

    You wonder...

    Enjoy the moonlight that passes by most nights,
    This miracle happens before dreams begin,
    While the orange sky fades into a peaceful blue heaven,
    It makes you wonder about beautiful things.

    It's less of a mystery when you find someone perfect for you,
    Everyday is like an incredible dream that you can never have imagined,
    A dream where the full moon is bright over your soft closed eyes,
    You gaze at the moon everynight wondering about beautiful things.

    The best of feelings happen while the moon is bright,
    Feelings of comfort from holding ones hand for the very first time,
    Speechless kisses that keep you warm during the cold winter night,
    Gazing into each other's eyes while letting the night pass by,
    It makes you wonder about beautiful things.

    The feelings you experience for this person are real and ecstatic,
    There is never a day that passes by where you forget,
    You can never describe this incredible feeling,
    You think about this person everynight wondering about beautiful things.

    You can bear one moonless night; You can not bear one dreamless night,
    Make the best of the nights that are followed by the one you admire,
    Enjoy the moonlight together by looking at the moon shortly before midnight,
    This will make you wonder about beautiful things.
     
  14. Aug 4, 2005 #13

    JamesU

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    better! :smile:
     
  15. Aug 4, 2005 #14

    loseyourname

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    Yes! Post our poetry. Unfortunately, I rarely title anything, but here's one:

    The half-life of the liquid drip in my kidneys plays non-conformist
    with time, taunting me with thoughts about the relativity of
    this slow procession we all make toward the recycling bin.
    They cannot stop the spread of shrill shrapnel into vital organs;
    they can but dull what few experiences remain.
    It's funny to me that soldiers these days no longer march
    at what they are to destroy; rather they crawl.
    I gather that the weakness of light in this room has no real
    connection to the relativity dictating that it can never slow.
    No, but my selection of a smaller Nativity for the Last Christmas
    begs the question of absolutes: Did not Descartes ironically
    dictate that even God cannot know?
    What then of the supposed words of some child
    born in a barn under the planet Venus?
    "Does this have anything to do with relativity?"
    The final question issued forth from a drooling open mouth
    as the scrubs scramble to steady the oscilloscope
    to no avail . . . to no avail. With the reaper I must elope.
     
  16. Aug 5, 2005 #15
    The word "miracle" bothers me here. It's prosaic, not poetic: you are informing us it's a miracle, instead of describing it such that we come to that conclusion. Make sense?
    This is alot better.
    I think the varied last sentences that end in "beautiful things" ends up working.

    Here, again, is a kind of prose information sentence. It would be a much richer poem if you somehow manage to describe the experience such that the reader is the one who sums it up by saying "It sounds like an incredible dream. I couldn't have imagined it!" or words to that effect, the goal being to give us the experience, rather than telling us, merely."It was incredible!"
    Something like what you've written in this line is always preferable to something like: "My dream of you was etherial."

    Simpler, easy to grasp words, are always better. "Bright" for the full moon, is better than, say "luminous" or even "glowing", but try, where you can, to find words or terms the reader won't expect in conjunction with the moon (or whatever you're describing), that describe its brightness (or whatever you're describing). Is there some more interesting, creative way, in fact, to say "full moon"? A more interesting way to say "gazing into each other's eyes"?

    Shakespeare was a master at finding unconventional and insightful alternate ways to express things. Not just with adjectives, but with verbs, nouns, adverbs; everything. (Not that you should cull strange words from Shakespeare: they'll just sound "off", but do with your own English what he did with his.)
     
  17. Aug 5, 2005 #16
    Good advice and comments Zooby.

    I also think this line works well. It makes me think about the description "soft closed eyes" and its use here.
     
  18. Aug 5, 2005 #17
    Thanks, Artman.

    Words that label emotional states, like "ecstatic" or "incredible" just don't succeed in getting the reader to appreciate those states. The reader can know what you mean, but still stand back and not participate. Somehow, you have to induce those states by the way you write about the scene. Not easy.
    ----
    I went back and reread the original, and now I think something of flow and rhythm may have been lost in the revision. Flow and rhythm are powerful inducers of mood, and I think that was the strongest element of the original version.
     
  19. Aug 5, 2005 #18

    Mk

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    The Drip Drop

    I was abed and fast a-sleeping
    When came quietly a-creeping
    A drip dropping.
    This little drip did dropping wake me
    And, steadily beating, soon did make me
    Start flip flopping.

    My head beneath my pillow buried
    Still somehow the drip drop carried
    From the ceiling,
    'Round the walls, 'cross the floor
    The drip drop echoed echoed more
    Echoes reeling! Echoes reeling,

    Trapped in mine ears the sound resounding
    Drip drop dropped my heart to pounding
    Pounding louder!
    Why had this drip drop come to taunt me!?
    Who sent you, drip drop, here to haunt me?!
    Pounding prouder!

    Dripped it dropped it dripped a drop!
    Pled I, 'Stop your Drip Drop! STOP!!'
    Still more clamor!
    Thrashing, flailing all about
    My mind ablaze began to shout
    'Just crack your skull and get it out!'
    Where's the hammer?!

    When, all at once, the last drip dropped,
    And, with a sigh, the drip drop stopped.
    My spirits soared
    And then
    It poured
    [/QUOTE]

    I really do love this one. Its great.

    I'm keeping it, as a token of your love. :smile:
     
  20. Aug 5, 2005 #19

    JasonRox

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    That was great advice zoobyshoe.

    I'm getting a much better feel on how to write a better poem.
     
  21. Aug 5, 2005 #20

    Tom Mattson

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    God, I think I'm about to slip into a sugar coma. :yuck:

    Here's one I like a whole lot better.

     
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